Basic/Traffic/FIS???
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Basic/Traffic/FIS???
Hello all,
new to flying and new to pprune so be nice...
I have my skills test and r/t practical this weekend. Where i fly we have a LARS but only ever ask for Basic service.
I've read the definitions of each service but they dont mean much in practical terms to me. Can anyone explain them in simple terms, and explain what an R/T examiner means when he says I should "which is the safest and what kind of station can provide which."
all help gratefully received.
new to flying and new to pprune so be nice...
I have my skills test and r/t practical this weekend. Where i fly we have a LARS but only ever ask for Basic service.
I've read the definitions of each service but they dont mean much in practical terms to me. Can anyone explain them in simple terms, and explain what an R/T examiner means when he says I should "which is the safest and what kind of station can provide which."
all help gratefully received.
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CAP 774, available on the CAA website, explains the different types of service available from ATS outside controlled airspace. It spells out which ATS units can offer which service and explains the differences between the different types of service.
[It is essential that you understand the types of service available, exactly what they mean and which of them you are entitled to request - otherwise you may come unstuck when ATC personnel ask you which service you require!].
A visit to an ATC Unit at a radar equipped airfield would be helpful.
H49
[It is essential that you understand the types of service available, exactly what they mean and which of them you are entitled to request - otherwise you may come unstuck when ATC personnel ask you which service you require!].
A visit to an ATC Unit at a radar equipped airfield would be helpful.
H49
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Airprox
Off topic slightly here but there are many more Airprox reports involving aircraft using a basic service then there are using a traffic service.
I would always use a traffic service if possible.
Its an extra pair of eyes to help you out!
I would always use a traffic service if possible.
Its an extra pair of eyes to help you out!
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How about this as an exceedingly simple (but hopefully practical) explanation:
Basic Service: I know you are there. I may let you know if I know if there's something that might affect you but don't count on it. Let me know if your engine quits or, preferably, when you leave the frequency.
Traffic Service: I can see you and I'll try to let you know if I think you might have a traffic conflict with someone else. (I think this is the most useful service and personally ask for this as a matter of course).
Deconfliction Service: Traffic service but with vectors to move you out of the way of conflicting traffic.
Procedural Service: Not particularly relevant for VFR flying.
Basic Service: I know you are there. I may let you know if I know if there's something that might affect you but don't count on it. Let me know if your engine quits or, preferably, when you leave the frequency.
Traffic Service: I can see you and I'll try to let you know if I think you might have a traffic conflict with someone else. (I think this is the most useful service and personally ask for this as a matter of course).
Deconfliction Service: Traffic service but with vectors to move you out of the way of conflicting traffic.
Procedural Service: Not particularly relevant for VFR flying.
That's an excellent introduction*, thanks!
Question: do certain levels of service require certain equipment? i.e. Traffic service only if transponder (mode C) working?
*I was going to call it a "crash course" but that might have sounded unfortunate.
Question: do certain levels of service require certain equipment? i.e. Traffic service only if transponder (mode C) working?
*I was going to call it a "crash course" but that might have sounded unfortunate.
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Am I correct that services are given subject to workload or similar. This means that if you ask for Traffic service then they are not obliged to provide it?
I have asked for Traffic and been told that only Basic is available.
As far as I can see the Basic service depends on how interested the controller is. I have been under a basic service and had traffic pass close to me without any call from our local LARS service provider.
I've never asked for deconfliction, but may try it next time.
I have asked for Traffic and been told that only Basic is available.
As far as I can see the Basic service depends on how interested the controller is. I have been under a basic service and had traffic pass close to me without any call from our local LARS service provider.
I've never asked for deconfliction, but may try it next time.
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This is a dog's breakfast due to chronic underfunding of air traffic control in the UK, this means we don't get the level of Flight Information Service that is common elsewhere in Europe.
In increasing order of service:
To get a basic service all you need is a radio. Basic Service in practical terms means you are known to ATU and they will answer questions for yuo like "What's the QNH at AAA" What's the weather at AAA" "Could you activate my flight plan please?" If you don't want any other service and know the answers already I wouldn't bother to talk to them.
To get a traffic service a transponder helps the controller, but you only really need a radio. The controller needs a radar set. Traffic Service means the controller will try to notify you of potentially conflicting traffic and other hazards like controlled airspace and danger areas you might infringe, but if he misses one or forgets that's still your problem not his. However it's the most useful service as you get an extra pair of eyes and all the stuff that goes with basic service.
Deconfliction service is like traffic service except the controller will give you a heading to steer to get round it, since that may take you into IMC it's really only for IFR traffic.
Procedural Service is mostly so that IFR arrivals and departures at airfields without radar can be safely sequenced.
Hope that helps
In increasing order of service:
To get a basic service all you need is a radio. Basic Service in practical terms means you are known to ATU and they will answer questions for yuo like "What's the QNH at AAA" What's the weather at AAA" "Could you activate my flight plan please?" If you don't want any other service and know the answers already I wouldn't bother to talk to them.
To get a traffic service a transponder helps the controller, but you only really need a radio. The controller needs a radar set. Traffic Service means the controller will try to notify you of potentially conflicting traffic and other hazards like controlled airspace and danger areas you might infringe, but if he misses one or forgets that's still your problem not his. However it's the most useful service as you get an extra pair of eyes and all the stuff that goes with basic service.
Deconfliction service is like traffic service except the controller will give you a heading to steer to get round it, since that may take you into IMC it's really only for IFR traffic.
Procedural Service is mostly so that IFR arrivals and departures at airfields without radar can be safely sequenced.
Hope that helps
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I don't know about others but I've pretty much found that requesting a basic service gets you exactly what you use to have with a flight information service.
I've certainly had traffic information passed on a basic service and it is pretty much business as usual despite the change in service names.
I've certainly had traffic information passed on a basic service and it is pretty much business as usual despite the change in service names.
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cheers
Helen, Heliplane, John
thanks for your input. i also posted this on the ATC forum and unwittingly sparked a torrent of increasingly pedantic backbiting between the subsequent posters.
this helps my understanding, and i appreciate it.
thanks for your input. i also posted this on the ATC forum and unwittingly sparked a torrent of increasingly pedantic backbiting between the subsequent posters.
this helps my understanding, and i appreciate it.
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Some useful replies above.
IME, the few times I have asked for a Traffic service, I have been told that only Basic Service is available due Controller Workload. In fact, I don't think I've managed to obtain a Traffic Service yet!
I have had mixed experiences with a Basic Service. Sometimes I get passed lots of useful traffic information, but on the one day I really needed it (sunny Sunday last autumn, when the skies were HEAVING) I got no traffic information whatsoever.
We passed quite close to others on multiple occasions that day.
Monkeyscribbler, good luck this weekend...
IME, the few times I have asked for a Traffic service, I have been told that only Basic Service is available due Controller Workload. In fact, I don't think I've managed to obtain a Traffic Service yet!I have had mixed experiences with a Basic Service. Sometimes I get passed lots of useful traffic information, but on the one day I really needed it (sunny Sunday last autumn, when the skies were HEAVING) I got no traffic information whatsoever.
We passed quite close to others on multiple occasions that day.Monkeyscribbler, good luck this weekend...
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Translation
I don't know about others but I've pretty much found that requesting a basic service gets you exactly what you use to have with a flight information service.
I know that Basic Service is Flight Information Service, but what about Traffic Service?
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It used to be Flight Information, then Radar Information, then Radar advisory service.
Traffic service = old Radar Information service
Deconfliction = between old RIS and RAS
Procedural = old radar advisory service
In real terms if you are outside controlled airspace, any service is subject to workload. Often if you request a traffic service, the response is "reduced traffic service due to poor radar performance" which sounds like a complete arse covering tactic on the controllers part.
Traffic service = old Radar Information service
Deconfliction = between old RIS and RAS
Procedural = old radar advisory service
In real terms if you are outside controlled airspace, any service is subject to workload. Often if you request a traffic service, the response is "reduced traffic service due to poor radar performance" which sounds like a complete arse covering tactic on the controllers part.
