Gliding package aimed at PPLs
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Hove
Posts: 72
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Maybe gliding schools should provide a new appointments system or intensive course with some form of structure.
Bookable training does not exempt you from helping to set up the launchpoint, or hangar packing. The nearest you will get to turning up & flying is to book a 1:1 session with an instructor who will do the legwork for you.
Clubs survive because having the members do the work keeps the costs down. Employing a host of staff to do the donkey work would make gliding prohibitively expensive.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Job Centre
Age: 74
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cats
Yep -Lasham.
OK, a big, mature outfit, but not at all stuffy. Very friendly, good humoured and clubby (I'm not a member, there are not enough hours in a day right now)
Nav. Well generally as a PPL, for me it's 'choose a destination, draw some lines avoiding the hot spots, dial the numbers in, point the aeroplane and go' with generally enough slack time to keep an eye on progress.
Maybe it's just me, but what with going round in circles a lot of the time, watching out for others doing the same, hunting lift which is going to be in a different place from the chosen course, keeping OCAS and VMC, and of course the steed heading inexorably downhill as well ... I guess I just don't have enough brainpower to manage a map and maybe comms as well.
I am just impressed with those who can. Or maybe I'm setting my personal bar too high? (I shouldn't have mentioned 'bar')
SD
It's good to hear you had such a positive experience. Are you willing to reveal which club this was at? Also, what was surprising about the GP's approach to nav?
OK, a big, mature outfit, but not at all stuffy. Very friendly, good humoured and clubby (I'm not a member, there are not enough hours in a day right now)
Nav. Well generally as a PPL, for me it's 'choose a destination, draw some lines avoiding the hot spots, dial the numbers in, point the aeroplane and go' with generally enough slack time to keep an eye on progress.
Maybe it's just me, but what with going round in circles a lot of the time, watching out for others doing the same, hunting lift which is going to be in a different place from the chosen course, keeping OCAS and VMC, and of course the steed heading inexorably downhill as well ... I guess I just don't have enough brainpower to manage a map and maybe comms as well.
I am just impressed with those who can. Or maybe I'm setting my personal bar too high? (I shouldn't have mentioned 'bar')
SD
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not surprised that Lasham impressed you. They impress me as well! The cafe and bar are good as well IMHO. You definitely should have mentioned 'bar'!
Just about all serious XC pilots today use a PDA or PNA with a moving map with airspace and turnpoints on, and software which will warn when they are close, which helps quite a bit. It will also have the declared task in and will help with working out which direction to fly in if one is slightly confused, and with getting into the TP zone correctly - either a .5km barrel, or a 90-degree FAI sector. A lot of the pilots also use them for glide range calculations. I use one though the flight computer in the glider not only does the vario sounds, so long as I get the co-ordinates right it gives me a clue as to what direction to fly in, how fast to fly (head wind - fly faster, tail wind - fly slower unless above glide slope), how far it is to the next TP and what the bearing is. However the chart is always to hand.
Also many of the serious chaps are are very, very familiar with where they are flying and where known 'hot spots' are.
<edit>
And as one does more gliding and thermalling the actual business of thermalling takes less and less of one's concious thoughts, so more is left for concentrating on things like how long to stay in the thermal, where the next one might be and so on.
</edit>
Also I guess you never got far away from Lasham - traffice density drops fairly quickly as you get out of glide range as you are leaving all the ab initios and nearly all the pre-Bronze and many of the pre-Silver pilots in the local area.
It is all so, so much easier on a good day, where the clouds don't lie (e.g. if it looks good it will be) and there are decent streets - and tasking up & down the streets makes it easier as well, so long as you manage to stay in the 'lift' street and don't blunder into the 'sink' street.
Lasham also has the fun was watching the arrivals and departures to ATC - I doubt there are many places where you are that close to the active runway.
BTW there is one other vital task if you are not finding lift - picking a safe field...
And did you get any introduction to the various methods of 'in-cockpit relief'? 
Just about all serious XC pilots today use a PDA or PNA with a moving map with airspace and turnpoints on, and software which will warn when they are close, which helps quite a bit. It will also have the declared task in and will help with working out which direction to fly in if one is slightly confused, and with getting into the TP zone correctly - either a .5km barrel, or a 90-degree FAI sector. A lot of the pilots also use them for glide range calculations. I use one though the flight computer in the glider not only does the vario sounds, so long as I get the co-ordinates right it gives me a clue as to what direction to fly in, how fast to fly (head wind - fly faster, tail wind - fly slower unless above glide slope), how far it is to the next TP and what the bearing is. However the chart is always to hand.
Also many of the serious chaps are are very, very familiar with where they are flying and where known 'hot spots' are.
<edit>
And as one does more gliding and thermalling the actual business of thermalling takes less and less of one's concious thoughts, so more is left for concentrating on things like how long to stay in the thermal, where the next one might be and so on.
</edit>
Also I guess you never got far away from Lasham - traffice density drops fairly quickly as you get out of glide range as you are leaving all the ab initios and nearly all the pre-Bronze and many of the pre-Silver pilots in the local area.
It is all so, so much easier on a good day, where the clouds don't lie (e.g. if it looks good it will be) and there are decent streets - and tasking up & down the streets makes it easier as well, so long as you manage to stay in the 'lift' street and don't blunder into the 'sink' street.
Lasham also has the fun was watching the arrivals and departures to ATC - I doubt there are many places where you are that close to the active runway.
BTW there is one other vital task if you are not finding lift - picking a safe field...
And did you get any introduction to the various methods of 'in-cockpit relief'?
Last edited by cats_five; 22nd Jun 2011 at 06:06.
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Job Centre
Age: 74
Posts: 169
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Briefly ..
Add-on benefits for us were retrieving back to the launch point, and cable retrieves. The key is having the right ratio of students to aircraft/instructors. Too many students and, as well as not flying, there's not enough support work to keep them busy and interested.
Although I'm reasonably hi-tech in everyday life, I am (so far) a fairly lo-tech flier. Maybe I need to get real (I feel a thread starter coming on). I guess money saved by GPs on hourly costs can be spent on tech stuff.
I am reasonably familiar with a 40 mile radius of my home field, but you're right, I was always within 4 or 5 miles of Lasham, i.e. in sight.
ATC is interesting - there was also a fly-in while we at Lasham - everything from Cub to Twister to DC3.
Relief. Well in my case it's part of my pre-flight checks and post-flight actions. It's never yet been an in-flight emergency (odd, that's not in any of the check lists I've seen. Another thread-starter?). Pray tell more.
SD
Add-on benefits for us were retrieving back to the launch point, and cable retrieves. The key is having the right ratio of students to aircraft/instructors. Too many students and, as well as not flying, there's not enough support work to keep them busy and interested.
Although I'm reasonably hi-tech in everyday life, I am (so far) a fairly lo-tech flier. Maybe I need to get real (I feel a thread starter coming on). I guess money saved by GPs on hourly costs can be spent on tech stuff.
I am reasonably familiar with a 40 mile radius of my home field, but you're right, I was always within 4 or 5 miles of Lasham, i.e. in sight.
ATC is interesting - there was also a fly-in while we at Lasham - everything from Cub to Twister to DC3.
Relief. Well in my case it's part of my pre-flight checks and post-flight actions. It's never yet been an in-flight emergency (odd, that's not in any of the check lists I've seen. Another thread-starter?). Pray tell more.
SD
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A lot of us use old PDAs as they often have better screens for use in bright daylight - mine cost me £30 on ebay and the software I use is free.
I have brought two expensive hi-tech things, an EW Microrecorder and later an IGC approved Flarm (so traces from it are valid for badge claims). I use the EW if I fly club gliders as I like to have a trace for each flight - and if the times on the log sheet are wrong I have some evidence to back me up as I tackle the man that puts the details in. (of course I should check them myself)
The only other glider-related things beyond insurance and annuals I've spent money on were new tyres and inner tubes, which are hardly hi-tech, and a small amount on some wiring to get 12v to the Flarm and EW, and the NMEA from the EW to the PDA - that cost me a good bottle of wine to the chap who wired the tiny tiny plug for the PDA.
The glider came with the LX4000 which in it's day was the bees' knees of flight computers.
However some people have brought a ClearNav - ££££! It's an excellent device though, the screen is genuinely readable in sunlight, and it's easy to upload airspace and turnpoints using USB - a lot of older devices are serial only which can be a problem with modern laptops that no longer have serial ports. Some GPs have had lots of problems with USB-Serial adapters that aren't fully-featured so don't work for uploading & downloading PDAs and so on.
I've seen the NATs device and didn't think it would be very easy to read in the cockpit, plus AFAIK we can't put the TPs in.
The other up-and-coming device seems to be the Oudie but I've never seen one in person.
Relief - think plastic bags or pee tubes... And it's essential, as you need to drink if flying for 5 hours.
I had no idea they had fly-ins at Lasham - I know they do at Popham, but getting a DC3 in and out there would be a bit ambitious. Saw the Coventry-based DC3 at HusBos last year, take-off and landing runs (empty) are very impressive. It attraced a lot of attention.
I have brought two expensive hi-tech things, an EW Microrecorder and later an IGC approved Flarm (so traces from it are valid for badge claims). I use the EW if I fly club gliders as I like to have a trace for each flight - and if the times on the log sheet are wrong I have some evidence to back me up as I tackle the man that puts the details in. (of course I should check them myself)
The only other glider-related things beyond insurance and annuals I've spent money on were new tyres and inner tubes, which are hardly hi-tech, and a small amount on some wiring to get 12v to the Flarm and EW, and the NMEA from the EW to the PDA - that cost me a good bottle of wine to the chap who wired the tiny tiny plug for the PDA.
The glider came with the LX4000 which in it's day was the bees' knees of flight computers.
However some people have brought a ClearNav - ££££! It's an excellent device though, the screen is genuinely readable in sunlight, and it's easy to upload airspace and turnpoints using USB - a lot of older devices are serial only which can be a problem with modern laptops that no longer have serial ports. Some GPs have had lots of problems with USB-Serial adapters that aren't fully-featured so don't work for uploading & downloading PDAs and so on.
I've seen the NATs device and didn't think it would be very easy to read in the cockpit, plus AFAIK we can't put the TPs in.
The other up-and-coming device seems to be the Oudie but I've never seen one in person.
Relief - think plastic bags or pee tubes... And it's essential, as you need to drink if flying for 5 hours.
I had no idea they had fly-ins at Lasham - I know they do at Popham, but getting a DC3 in and out there would be a bit ambitious. Saw the Coventry-based DC3 at HusBos last year, take-off and landing runs (empty) are very impressive. It attraced a lot of attention.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Amsterdam
Posts: 4,598
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Relief - think plastic bags or pee tubes...
The main problem is that gliders, in order to minimize the cross-section, have seating positions that should more properly be called "lying positions", with your knees higher than your pelvis. This makes peeing in an ordinary bottle or bag extremely tough - especially for the ladies I assume.
And yes, I know a few pilots who have had to abandon their five-hour flight (which is a badge requirement) after four hours and some, not because of a lack of thermals, but because of bursting bladders and no way to get relief.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Cambridge
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Even better (for men), Transfix incontinence condoms. Roll on, attach to pee tube (either routed to outside the glider or to a suitable bag), and no hassle, no chance of leaks.
Several litres of water in a Camelback, direct connection to the outside world - all sorted. No chance of dehydration. No danger from field landings with a full bladder. Seriously, getting this sorted out is a major flight safety issue.
When phoning up to buy some of the above, and wanting to pay, rather than charge the NHS, I was asked "are you a glider pilot or a diver?" Everyone else gets them free.
Several litres of water in a Camelback, direct connection to the outside world - all sorted. No chance of dehydration. No danger from field landings with a full bladder. Seriously, getting this sorted out is a major flight safety issue.
When phoning up to buy some of the above, and wanting to pay, rather than charge the NHS, I was asked "are you a glider pilot or a diver?" Everyone else gets them free.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I know a few women who use adult diapers - the sort for incontenent folks, not for mild stress incontinence - but I didn't realise any men use them. I also know at least one man who simply cannot pee in a glider - unless he has been practising!
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PaulisHome wrote:
Tried that. Once. The damn things glue to you and don't let go easily.
The same shops sell water-absorbing crystals -a teaspoonful in a plastic bag (or one bag inside another, just in case of leaks) works really well, though some practice in finding the best position is recommended.
Only for male pilots though, because of the seating position as already explained.
Transfix incontinence condoms. Roll on, attach to pee tube (either routed to outside the glider or to a suitable bag), and no hassle, no chance of leaks.
The same shops sell water-absorbing crystals -a teaspoonful in a plastic bag (or one bag inside another, just in case of leaks) works really well, though some practice in finding the best position is recommended.
Only for male pilots though, because of the seating position as already explained.
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Suffolk
Posts: 212
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thanks to everyone here for their helpful comments. They enabled me to put a package together- see new thread http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...ml#post6550755
