England sucks
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England sucks
Having recently completed my PPL in Florida I am slowly but surely getting used to the English way of doing things. Whilst I agree that flying the UK has it's plus points and that the restricted and congested airspace does help to sharpen the flying skills, I have to say that I think the many bad points outweigh the good stuff.
My local airfield is Shoreham, and I have had a number of flights there now with instructors to help build my confidence of flying in the UK, and during these flights I have had a few touch & go's and have had to stomach the £8.72 each time I put my wheels on the tarmac, or indeed grass.
In the US I could do as many tough & go's as I liked and didn't have pay any extra costs for this. In a a 2 hour lesson I could nail 15 landings easily and this is partcularly good at perfecting the all imporatnt landing phase of the flight. Also, if my approach looked unstable or I wanted to practice very important go arounds I could do this too and wouldn't have to worry about extra costs.
Whilst thinking about this, I decided tha instead of doing touch and go's I would merely do circuit practive at Shoreham and instead substitute the touch and go for go arounds each time and avoid the extra cost. However, having looked at the Shoreham airport website I've realised that even a go around is subject to the £8.72 charge. Staggering!!
I question how many unstable approahces and consequently how mnay bad and potentially dangerous landings occur in the UK becuase of not wanting to pay the 'approach charge'. I argue that this does not allow a pilot to fly safely and relaxed, and I was taught that if any part of the approach is not right you should instigate a go around. I believe this is good and safe airmanship and that people should not be forced into making landings.
It also means that during the training phase you are restricted on your approach and landing practice because of the additional costs associated with this. Take my 2 hour, 15 landing scenario: 15 x 8.72 = £130.8 just for landing. Lot's of dosh!!
I'm sure some of you will find someway to criticise this thread, but in summary I think this SUCKS giant ASS. Personally I do not feel that UK aviation is as good as that in the US. Bring on the flames....
My local airfield is Shoreham, and I have had a number of flights there now with instructors to help build my confidence of flying in the UK, and during these flights I have had a few touch & go's and have had to stomach the £8.72 each time I put my wheels on the tarmac, or indeed grass.
In the US I could do as many tough & go's as I liked and didn't have pay any extra costs for this. In a a 2 hour lesson I could nail 15 landings easily and this is partcularly good at perfecting the all imporatnt landing phase of the flight. Also, if my approach looked unstable or I wanted to practice very important go arounds I could do this too and wouldn't have to worry about extra costs.
Whilst thinking about this, I decided tha instead of doing touch and go's I would merely do circuit practive at Shoreham and instead substitute the touch and go for go arounds each time and avoid the extra cost. However, having looked at the Shoreham airport website I've realised that even a go around is subject to the £8.72 charge. Staggering!!
I question how many unstable approahces and consequently how mnay bad and potentially dangerous landings occur in the UK becuase of not wanting to pay the 'approach charge'. I argue that this does not allow a pilot to fly safely and relaxed, and I was taught that if any part of the approach is not right you should instigate a go around. I believe this is good and safe airmanship and that people should not be forced into making landings.
It also means that during the training phase you are restricted on your approach and landing practice because of the additional costs associated with this. Take my 2 hour, 15 landing scenario: 15 x 8.72 = £130.8 just for landing. Lot's of dosh!!
I'm sure some of you will find someway to criticise this thread, but in summary I think this SUCKS giant ASS. Personally I do not feel that UK aviation is as good as that in the US. Bring on the flames....
'wot Zula Alpha sed.
Fly or drive up to Popham one day, buy lunch, look at what's going on, look at what people are paying, look at the notice board.
You may wonder if you are in the same country as Shoreham - rather than just the adjacent county.
I quite like Shoreham, but even by UK standards it is atypically complex and expensive - Popham is not too far from you, and at the other end of the scale.
G
Fly or drive up to Popham one day, buy lunch, look at what's going on, look at what people are paying, look at the notice board.
You may wonder if you are in the same country as Shoreham - rather than just the adjacent county.
I quite like Shoreham, but even by UK standards it is atypically complex and expensive - Popham is not too far from you, and at the other end of the scale.
G
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The LAA route is certainly one way, but there are other ways, one of which is not to use larger airfields for training. I remember having to do my night circuits at a regional airport and the cost of landings dwarfed the cost of the aircraft hire (by the way, you can't do that in an LAA machine!)
Later the club negotiated a better deal elsewhere for that sort of training. My own recommendation is to find a club at a smaller airfield without 'International Spaceport' pretensions, where they take a more realistic view of customer service
Later the club negotiated a better deal elsewhere for that sort of training. My own recommendation is to find a club at a smaller airfield without 'International Spaceport' pretensions, where they take a more realistic view of customer service
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ct8282
I read your post as far as
and smiled 
You have picked an airfield many of us choose to avoid as much as possible. To me, any essentially GA airfield that is pretentious enough to have an ATIS is worth keeping clear of.
I only visit Shoeham when I have to, and the most pleasure I got was managing to park (at the far end), visit who we had to, never wore a yellow jacket and they didn't notice
As ZA says, just go and find a club / strip where you are not treated as a cash machine. Plenty with minimal, even no, ATC...
Location is clearly an issue - and I am not saying they are perfect examples (but surely better than Shoreham) - but Redhill, Goodwood spring to mind if you need licensed airfields / clubs / schools / aircraft for hire. As soon as you can move from these to strips / unlicensed / LAA types fun will increase in proportion to costs going down
Not while it's knocking Shoreham I won't 
NoD
PS To stop offending, can you alter the thread title e.g. change 'England' to the name of an airfield near Worthing
I read your post as far as
My local airfield is Shoreham
You have picked an airfield many of us choose to avoid as much as possible. To me, any essentially GA airfield that is pretentious enough to have an ATIS is worth keeping clear of.
I only visit Shoeham when I have to, and the most pleasure I got was managing to park (at the far end), visit who we had to, never wore a yellow jacket and they didn't notice
As ZA says, just go and find a club / strip where you are not treated as a cash machine. Plenty with minimal, even no, ATC...
Location is clearly an issue - and I am not saying they are perfect examples (but surely better than Shoreham) - but Redhill, Goodwood spring to mind if you need licensed airfields / clubs / schools / aircraft for hire. As soon as you can move from these to strips / unlicensed / LAA types fun will increase in proportion to costs going down
I'm sure some of you will find someway to criticise this thread
NoD
PS To stop offending, can you alter the thread title e.g. change 'England' to the name of an airfield near Worthing
And Deanland, AKA Ripe does training.
If it's just flying you want microlights and LAA Group 'A' need shorter strips generally and the Southern Flyers or Hampshire Microlight Flying Club may be handy for your needs. They'd know what else there is, many not on the charts or in the Guides. Wander around Goodwood might be some useful chat there.
mike hallam
If it's just flying you want microlights and LAA Group 'A' need shorter strips generally and the Southern Flyers or Hampshire Microlight Flying Club may be handy for your needs. They'd know what else there is, many not on the charts or in the Guides. Wander around Goodwood might be some useful chat there.
mike hallam
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You are paying for the expensive facilities. If these are not required, move to a nice local airfield - or go and do your low approaches into a disused strip / another airfield.
Some will charge you £10 for unlimited gouch and go's.
I wouldn't pay those fees, but they are needed to run such a place!
Some will charge you £10 for unlimited gouch and go's.
I wouldn't pay those fees, but they are needed to run such a place!
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I question how many unstable approahces and consequently how mnay bad and potentially dangerous landings occur in the UK becuase of not wanting to pay the 'approach charge'.
Aside from small grass strips, there are some airfields with a yearly membership that covers all landing and circuit fees. It's something I'm always mindfull of when I consider flying somewhere new now, having paid £22 to land C152s at Biggin in the past!
Personally I think flying in the US has spoilt you! So suck it up princess!
We need a revolution.
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You'll probably find that the go-around charge isn't there for go-arounds that are needed for safety reasons, but just there for people doing what you proposed to do. ie. take up room in the circuit, but avoid landing to avoid any charge.
The USA is different. They fund their airports differently. It's a simply fact that airports need to be paid for somehow.
In the USA they are paid for via taxation, in the UK, the user pays.
The USA is different. They fund their airports differently. It's a simply fact that airports need to be paid for somehow.
In the USA they are paid for via taxation, in the UK, the user pays.
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ct8282
Many ways of getting the best out of UK flying and avoiding the pain you have re landing fees etc but before I jump in can I ask a simple question? Why did you learn to fly? The answer to this will greatly colour any advice.
Rod1
Many ways of getting the best out of UK flying and avoiding the pain you have re landing fees etc but before I jump in can I ask a simple question? Why did you learn to fly? The answer to this will greatly colour any advice.
Rod1
Location is clearly an issue - and I am not saying they are perfect examples (but surely better than Shoreham) - but Redhill, Goodwood spring to mind if you need licensed airfields / clubs / schools / aircraft for hire.
I still prefer Popham!
G
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Flickers and sparks
No flames today, just flickers and sparks....
I cannot agree that a single word, all encompassing slash at a whole nation is an appropriate reaction to the cost of landing fees.
That said, the cost you describe does sound out of proportion. I had occasion recently to fly from Shoreham, what a delightful airport. nicely maintained, and conveniently situated.
Ahh, well maintained... That costs someone money, I suppose the users would want to pay their fair share of that, to have the facility available.
Conveniently situated... If someone [everyone] does not contribute back that value of the land, it will get swallowed up, like so many airports. I imagine that flying must be one of the most extreme cost of land and facilities vs return activies going. The third busiest airport in Canada will be closed within five years for other land use, and we have space in excess around here!
In 24 years of owning my plane, I have never paid landing fees or hangerage at my home airport. But buying the land, building the hangar, and ongoing maintenance do have their costs. I was thinking yesterday into my second hour of cutting the runway, that my tractor has nearly as many hours on it cutting and snow blowing the runway, as I have put on my plane in that period....
Why not stop by the Shoreham aiport manager's office, and ask if they'll waive some landing fees for you if you spend a day cutting grass for them?
But I agree that 130 GBP for two hours of landings does sound excessive, and a disincentive to currency....
I cannot agree that a single word, all encompassing slash at a whole nation is an appropriate reaction to the cost of landing fees.
That said, the cost you describe does sound out of proportion. I had occasion recently to fly from Shoreham, what a delightful airport. nicely maintained, and conveniently situated.
Ahh, well maintained... That costs someone money, I suppose the users would want to pay their fair share of that, to have the facility available.
Conveniently situated... If someone [everyone] does not contribute back that value of the land, it will get swallowed up, like so many airports. I imagine that flying must be one of the most extreme cost of land and facilities vs return activies going. The third busiest airport in Canada will be closed within five years for other land use, and we have space in excess around here!
In 24 years of owning my plane, I have never paid landing fees or hangerage at my home airport. But buying the land, building the hangar, and ongoing maintenance do have their costs. I was thinking yesterday into my second hour of cutting the runway, that my tractor has nearly as many hours on it cutting and snow blowing the runway, as I have put on my plane in that period....
Why not stop by the Shoreham aiport manager's office, and ask if they'll waive some landing fees for you if you spend a day cutting grass for them?
But I agree that 130 GBP for two hours of landings does sound excessive, and a disincentive to currency....
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You will find that a lot of the GA airfields in the US are publicly owned and funded by the taxpayer, thus are freely available for use by any old Joe for nothing.
Such a system does not exist in the UK, since GA is not as widely used in the UK on a day to day basis and there would be an uproar if our taxes were used to fund something seen as a luxury available to only a select few.
As such all our airfield are privately owned and need to charge premium prices to stay open!
Such a system does not exist in the UK, since GA is not as widely used in the UK on a day to day basis and there would be an uproar if our taxes were used to fund something seen as a luxury available to only a select few.
As such all our airfield are privately owned and need to charge premium prices to stay open!
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Thanks peeps. Nice to see the good side of a forum showing through. Your replies have indeed prompted me to start looking elsewhere at smaller airfields and I will keep you posted with my progress.
Think I'll start with Popham...
Think I'll start with Popham...
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As such all our airfield are privately owned and need to charge premium prices to stay open!
This country is organised all wrong.
Pleasure & fun are frowned upon as unneccessary flippancies.
What we should be doing is "getting on yer bike" & work like stick till you drop, don't use the "National" health service, & get some unfortunate member of family to dig a hole for you. At the same time pay whatever taxes the Government need to fund their bird tables, travel expenses, girl friends flat etc. And god forbid that we should protest!!
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Well go and live in the USA then. A fabulously wealthy country where they let poor people die for lack of health care and elect religious maniacs as president. Actually, thinking about Mr Blair I'm on a sticky wicket with that one :-)