PPL to ATPL --> Buying a share in a C182 viable?
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PPL to ATPL --> Buying a share in a C182 viable?
Hi all,
Just in brief. My end goal is to become an airline pilot due to commence ATPL's with Bristol ( DL ) this September.
I need to hour build but want to enjoy the process and to do some hard flying VFR at first all over the country. I am a low hour PPL in a Cessna 172SP and Fuji FA200-180 VP Prop 55 Hours.
I have seen a 1/8th Cessna 182S share for £11500 Total airframe is 1500 hours with 0 engine an 0 prop. £102 Wet Hobbs time & £140 PCM.
Does this seem viable compared to renting at say £150-180 ph. Are share prices negotiable etc? What should I offer if it made sense?
I have a 4 year plan at which time I want to be applying for jobs etc.
Would appreciate any comments, I am based in Bolton.
David
Just in brief. My end goal is to become an airline pilot due to commence ATPL's with Bristol ( DL ) this September.
I need to hour build but want to enjoy the process and to do some hard flying VFR at first all over the country. I am a low hour PPL in a Cessna 172SP and Fuji FA200-180 VP Prop 55 Hours.
I have seen a 1/8th Cessna 182S share for £11500 Total airframe is 1500 hours with 0 engine an 0 prop. £102 Wet Hobbs time & £140 PCM.
Does this seem viable compared to renting at say £150-180 ph. Are share prices negotiable etc? What should I offer if it made sense?
I have a 4 year plan at which time I want to be applying for jobs etc.
Would appreciate any comments, I am based in Bolton.
David
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David, my advice is to not think about purchasing a share in an aircraft. What happens if the engine fails, the prop governor needs an overhaul or a service bulletin comes out requiring expensive rectification. The list goes on and you could be liable for a 1/8th share of unlimited expense. My advise is to look for the best hire rate you can find, even if it means going overseas.
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What MANKER says makes a lot of sence, but I would be very honest about how you do your pricing if you take the hire option. The very attractive hire rates in the USA are not as good as they look when all the costs are taken into account.
I'm a great believer in share ownership - but that is just overpriced, without being complex time. I'm sure it's a lovely aeroplane - but you need experience and hours, and the type is much less important.
Just for example, a quick look on AFORS shows a Luscombe share going for £2k, then £60/month and £60/hr -
The hours are worth as much to your licence, and it'll cost you a fraction to buy and run as the C182. Particularly look at something with a Permit to Fly (which usually means LAA): you'll also have more opportunity to get involved in the management and maintenance of the aeroplane, which is a useful part of your learning process.
There are a few websites that will be very helpful in looking for shares (I love AFORS just for window shopping!), but also go and look at the noticeboards and ask at your local flying clubs - especially the smaller airfields.
G
Just for example, a quick look on AFORS shows a Luscombe share going for £2k, then £60/month and £60/hr -
The hours are worth as much to your licence, and it'll cost you a fraction to buy and run as the C182. Particularly look at something with a Permit to Fly (which usually means LAA): you'll also have more opportunity to get involved in the management and maintenance of the aeroplane, which is a useful part of your learning process.
There are a few websites that will be very helpful in looking for shares (I love AFORS just for window shopping!), but also go and look at the noticeboards and ask at your local flying clubs - especially the smaller airfields.
G
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Thanks alot for your replies. You are quite right, aslong as I can build experience with an aircraft with the right intruments it doesn't really matter what I fly.
I would prefer something fuel injected however with VOR / ILS capabilities.
I will check AFORS out, I am based near Bolton North West if anyone has anything in mind that would be of use.
Regards David
I would prefer something fuel injected however with VOR / ILS capabilities.
I will check AFORS out, I am based near Bolton North West if anyone has anything in mind that would be of use.
Regards David
ADF and VOR are a good idea for building your experience towards an ATPL, and I'd suggest that a CofA aeroplane allowing you to build night experience and genuine instrument time are probably what you want. An ILS is probably less of substantial value - but if one's available, absolutely - you can practice plenty of instrument approaches with ADF and VOR - ADF especially.
Something like this in other words!
G
Something like this in other words!
G
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Good spot on the C150, G.
David, unless you have unlimited funds, you should go for a small share (say around £2000 for a 1/20th share) Its a good idea to look for groups that have two aeroplanes rather than just one so when one goes tech for 6 months you're not stuck on the ground.
Share prices are always negotiable. Every now and then they even get given away as pilots who have lost medicals get fed up with paying monthly fees for an aeroplane they're not allowed to fly. Shares are often sold at less than their fraction of the value of the aeroplane as a whole.
Check up on what the group funds are at as well. If they have £10k in the bank then they've probably been doing their sums right and you won't get a phone call at some stage in the future asking for your share of the cost of a new engine.
David, unless you have unlimited funds, you should go for a small share (say around £2000 for a 1/20th share) Its a good idea to look for groups that have two aeroplanes rather than just one so when one goes tech for 6 months you're not stuck on the ground.
Share prices are always negotiable. Every now and then they even get given away as pilots who have lost medicals get fed up with paying monthly fees for an aeroplane they're not allowed to fly. Shares are often sold at less than their fraction of the value of the aeroplane as a whole.
Check up on what the group funds are at as well. If they have £10k in the bank then they've probably been doing their sums right and you won't get a phone call at some stage in the future asking for your share of the cost of a new engine.
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Has anyone had any experience with Aircraft grouping limited at Manchester Barton / Blackpool. i.e Aircraft Grouping - No Equity Cessna 172 Garmin 1000
£85 ph wet and £150 pcm no equity. Does anyone know what availability is like?
Also I learnt on a C172SP & Fuji Fa200-180 VP Prop. My instructor is very high hour / fan of anologue but never got onto EFIS systems. I kind of agree with this but the above looks pretty good considering the condition of the aircraft etc and the use of other planes. Should I be sticking to Analogue with my view to the future?
I know I'm asking alot of questions but I am in need of a little guidance at this early stage.
Many thanks again. David
£85 ph wet and £150 pcm no equity. Does anyone know what availability is like?
Also I learnt on a C172SP & Fuji Fa200-180 VP Prop. My instructor is very high hour / fan of anologue but never got onto EFIS systems. I kind of agree with this but the above looks pretty good considering the condition of the aircraft etc and the use of other planes. Should I be sticking to Analogue with my view to the future?
I know I'm asking alot of questions but I am in need of a little guidance at this early stage.
Many thanks again. David
Frankly, I think you're trying too hard to spend more money than necessary on more aeroplane than you need.
If you want to build experience on electronic flight bag / glass cockpit type instruments - that's very laudable, but of no value to your CPL where (arguably wrongly) such things are largely prohibited on the syllabus. I'd rather, if I were you, buy myself a decent portable system such a a Garmin 695 that you can take between aeroplanes - but, I say again, this will have no value and may even be detremental to your eventual CPL where everything will concentrate on the most basic techniques and instruments.
I agree with Fleetflyer - syndicate shares are a buyers market at the moment and you have every chance of arguing purchase prices down. But, monthlies and hourlies are what they are.
G
If you want to build experience on electronic flight bag / glass cockpit type instruments - that's very laudable, but of no value to your CPL where (arguably wrongly) such things are largely prohibited on the syllabus. I'd rather, if I were you, buy myself a decent portable system such a a Garmin 695 that you can take between aeroplanes - but, I say again, this will have no value and may even be detremental to your eventual CPL where everything will concentrate on the most basic techniques and instruments.
I agree with Fleetflyer - syndicate shares are a buyers market at the moment and you have every chance of arguing purchase prices down. But, monthlies and hourlies are what they are.
G
