Flying a model plane from a real one
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Essex
Flying a model plane from a real one
Hypotheically of course, how legal might it be for a passenger in an aircraft to fly a model aircraft from the plane?
I know it is possible to do and how to do it, what we have in mind is to fly a model f16 ducted fan jet from the seat while they fly in formation for a circuit, but we were wondering how legal it might be?
Any thoughts?
I know it is possible to do and how to do it, what we have in mind is to fly a model f16 ducted fan jet from the seat while they fly in formation for a circuit, but we were wondering how legal it might be?
Any thoughts?
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Liverpool / Bristol
I should imagine it would be bloody difficult for whoever is flying the model AC....would have to get used to being on a moving platform that might jolt around a bit etc. Wouldn't fancy risking it especially with one of those expensive model jets....
.mic
.mic
Joined: May 2010
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From: Hampshire
Actually, you can fly model aeroplanes anywhere you like. There are certain areas where it is daft to do so, such as on the short final to Heathrow. Having said that, there are aeromodellers who fly within the circuit of Farnborough.
I'm pretty sure that about 20 years ago somebody flew an RC model across the Channel controlling it from a helicopter. So from a legal standpoint it can be done but to be completely safe you may need approval from the CAA.
There's probably some law such as 'reckless endangerment of an aircraft' that the CAA's lawyers might use against you should it all go tits.
From a not getting into trouble standpoint, you should do this where nobody can see you. I.e. a private strip or something like it.
From a practical standpoint, your F16 should be of sufficiently low intertia that should it go through your windscreen, it won't kill your pilot. It should also be able to manage a speed comparable to what you'll be doing.
Also, there may be things in the big aeroplane that interfere with your RC transmitter, so test that first, with the engine running.
Good luck, and try not to kill anyone!
I'm pretty sure that about 20 years ago somebody flew an RC model across the Channel controlling it from a helicopter. So from a legal standpoint it can be done but to be completely safe you may need approval from the CAA.
There's probably some law such as 'reckless endangerment of an aircraft' that the CAA's lawyers might use against you should it all go tits.
From a not getting into trouble standpoint, you should do this where nobody can see you. I.e. a private strip or something like it.
From a practical standpoint, your F16 should be of sufficiently low intertia that should it go through your windscreen, it won't kill your pilot. It should also be able to manage a speed comparable to what you'll be doing.
Also, there may be things in the big aeroplane that interfere with your RC transmitter, so test that first, with the engine running.
Good luck, and try not to kill anyone!
Joined: Feb 2011
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From: Sussex
Let me know where you're going to do this and when so that I can make sure I am not flying within 100 miles of you guys. What if the model hits your prop. What if your RC equipment gets interfered by a radio transmission to/from the aircraft and temporarily goes out of control.
Surely there is just too much risk involved to make this worthwhile.
Surely there is just too much risk involved to make this worthwhile.
Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Ansião (PT)
It depends where one is, of course, but in this country it would be a no-no: R/C never above 500' AGL (and indeed only in designated areas), PPL and microlight never below.
For this once, there seems some logic to that.
For this once, there seems some logic to that.
Joined: May 2010
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From: Hampshire
Just as I thought; its been done already with helicopters!
YouTube - ‪R C Helicopter Channel crossing.‬‏
sorry I don't know how to embed the video.
YouTube - ‪R C Helicopter Channel crossing.‬‏
sorry I don't know how to embed the video.
Joined: Nov 2000
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From: on the beach
Hypotheically of course, how legal might it be for a passenger in an aircraft to fly a model aircraft from the plane?
All I can say is you must have too much time on your hands. As someone else has said, if you do decide to do it, let us all know and we'll avoid the area like the plague.
Thread Starter
Joined: Mar 2011
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From: Essex
As for the why, why not? Sounds like a fun thing to try. Why do a loop in an a/c etc etc.. Provided of course its safe and legal. I'd add thats its only a small polystyrene electric jet, not one of the huge expensive ones.
As for the model going out of control, for any signal loss they always shut off with control surfaces flat, it may not be a good outcome for the model but not the end of the world. The model would be kept below and to the side of the cub so it can be seen clearly and wont get in the way.
And of course it would be flown by an experienced pilot (which rules me out!)and modeller.
I think it would be cool to see it done, but the 500ft rule is a good point and could be the problem with this. If theres a few hundred feet between the model and the cub it seems a bit pointless!
As for the model going out of control, for any signal loss they always shut off with control surfaces flat, it may not be a good outcome for the model but not the end of the world. The model would be kept below and to the side of the cub so it can be seen clearly and wont get in the way.
And of course it would be flown by an experienced pilot (which rules me out!)and modeller.
I think it would be cool to see it done, but the 500ft rule is a good point and could be the problem with this. If theres a few hundred feet between the model and the cub it seems a bit pointless!
A little less conversation,
a little more aviation...
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From: Bracknell, UK
Joined: Jun 2002
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
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From: east ESSEX
A few questions: how big is it ? how heavy is it? how fast/slow will it fly?
What is it`s endurance ? what guaranteed range will it operate at ? What is the maximum height you are permitted to fly models?
Are you a `real`pilot ? have you ever flown formation in `real` aeroplanes ? Has your pilot friend ? How will you perform the take-off ? What type of `real` aeroplane will you fly in ? What happens if you lose sight of it ? What happens if it won`t respond in flight ?
Is your insurance sufficient? Is the owner of the aircraft`s insurance sufficient ? Have you checked with the CAA about flying UAVs/RPVs ?
I would suggest that a `NO` answer to any question should be sufficient...Otherwise go and find a friendly airfield manager,and ask him if you can practise driving a car around his airfield whilst trying to control your model first......
We will await your answer in due course..!
What is it`s endurance ? what guaranteed range will it operate at ? What is the maximum height you are permitted to fly models?
Are you a `real`pilot ? have you ever flown formation in `real` aeroplanes ? Has your pilot friend ? How will you perform the take-off ? What type of `real` aeroplane will you fly in ? What happens if you lose sight of it ? What happens if it won`t respond in flight ?
Is your insurance sufficient? Is the owner of the aircraft`s insurance sufficient ? Have you checked with the CAA about flying UAVs/RPVs ?
I would suggest that a `NO` answer to any question should be sufficient...Otherwise go and find a friendly airfield manager,and ask him if you can practise driving a car around his airfield whilst trying to control your model first......
We will await your answer in due course..!
Joined: May 2006
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From: Worcs/Glos border
I thought about doing this in the early '70's - I was flying fast aerobatic R/C models and a friend had a Piper Vagabond which was based at the same strip as we flew models from. The speeds were broadly similar.
In the end I didn't because it just seemed too likely to end in a plastic bagful of bits of my model, which had taken many hours to design and build, and quite a bit of my hard-earned.
The Vagabond didn't have a radio (IIRC) so that wasn't a problem but I was concerned that the range of my R/C system (normally perfectly adequate - in sight was in range) might be adversely affected by the Tx being away from the ground.
It would be extremely difficult to keep the model in sight at all times from the inside of a high wing aircraft - and you need to see it to fly it. Eyes off for a few seconds would probably result in a crash.
From where we flew, there wouldn't have been much risk to anyone except ourselves (and not much of that) but that was in the deepest wilds of Dorset.
Why do it? Why do anything a bit difficult?
In the end I didn't because it just seemed too likely to end in a plastic bagful of bits of my model, which had taken many hours to design and build, and quite a bit of my hard-earned.
The Vagabond didn't have a radio (IIRC) so that wasn't a problem but I was concerned that the range of my R/C system (normally perfectly adequate - in sight was in range) might be adversely affected by the Tx being away from the ground.
It would be extremely difficult to keep the model in sight at all times from the inside of a high wing aircraft - and you need to see it to fly it. Eyes off for a few seconds would probably result in a crash.
From where we flew, there wouldn't have been much risk to anyone except ourselves (and not much of that) but that was in the deepest wilds of Dorset.
Why do it? Why do anything a bit difficult?
Joined: May 2010
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From: Hampshire
I'm pretty sure this doesn't violate rule 5. (no flight within 500ft of any vessel, vehicle, or structure, except within the vicinity of an aerodrome or with the purpose of taking off or landing)
As for visibility, thats the nub of the problem. Keeping the model in sight will be very difficult and loss of sight due to structure of the plane getting in the way may well result in losing the model.
Your transmitter will have better range in the air rather than worse. As long as you can see the model you'll be fine.
As for visibility, thats the nub of the problem. Keeping the model in sight will be very difficult and loss of sight due to structure of the plane getting in the way may well result in losing the model.
Your transmitter will have better range in the air rather than worse. As long as you can see the model you'll be fine.
Joined: Jun 2003
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From: EuroGA.org
I think it would be illegal if done practically because IIRC model flying must not be above 500ft AGL, but the real plane needs to be above 500ft AGL, so maintaining visual contact might be tricky unless done over a wide open area (or the sea).
I can see why they used a heli because they are 500ft exempt, and they can be used to recover the model
Practically, it should work but most model planes fly quite slowly (not 140kt). Interference is often an issue and 2.4GHz is not what it is made out to be. You would need to test it carefully.
Just don't put the video on Youtube... A related area is a hot topic on model flying forums. If you google on FPV you will see loads, and much of it obviously provocative if not illegal. If I was a model flyer (my son is a very keen one) I would be very concerned about a few idiots (not referring to the OP here) bringing the whole hobby into disrepute by posting outrageous FPV videos. I am not going to write any more for obvious reasons.
I can see why they used a heli because they are 500ft exempt, and they can be used to recover the model
Practically, it should work but most model planes fly quite slowly (not 140kt). Interference is often an issue and 2.4GHz is not what it is made out to be. You would need to test it carefully.
Just don't put the video on Youtube... A related area is a hot topic on model flying forums. If you google on FPV you will see loads, and much of it obviously provocative if not illegal. If I was a model flyer (my son is a very keen one) I would be very concerned about a few idiots (not referring to the OP here) bringing the whole hobby into disrepute by posting outrageous FPV videos. I am not going to write any more for obvious reasons.
Joined: Sep 2010
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From: Northwest UK
I know first hand of 1 model flying site that is treading on egg shell's after realising that there new luxurious site they have signed a 2 year contract on is 'illegally' to close to a class D airport! They fly carefully and quietly!
'They have an EASA type organisation themselves but iv forgotten the name'
and have to be insured and stick to the rules
However i also know of another RC site that is at the far side of an active airfield and nobody bats an eye lid.
Announce it to the public and you will get problems! Cross your fingers and keep it quiet and you may get away with it.
Btw, google my handle
'They have an EASA type organisation themselves but iv forgotten the name'
and have to be insured and stick to the rules
However i also know of another RC site that is at the far side of an active airfield and nobody bats an eye lid.
Announce it to the public and you will get problems! Cross your fingers and keep it quiet and you may get away with it.
Btw, google my handle