Flying a model plane from a real one
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Check the conditions on the licence or exemption for the R/C tx. Check the weight and size against the ANO to see if it is classed as a model (or whatever they call it in the leg). If it's still a goer, then think about many of the other points raised in the thread....
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I've a feeling the height restriction in the UK is normally 400ft for a model plane.
Mention of it here:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF
Mention of it here:
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP658.PDF
Ducted fan models are capable of speeds far greater than most GA aircraft! I should think the full size machine would have trouble keeping up! I should imagine the vortices coming off the full size would cause severe control problems for the model if you plan on flying too close? A bit like a microlight trying to formate on a heavy jet I would imagine!
I've been flying RC models of various sizes and complexity for over 30years. It sounds like an interesting experiment. Make sure you bring a couple of black bin liners...
I've been flying RC models of various sizes and complexity for over 30years. It sounds like an interesting experiment. Make sure you bring a couple of black bin liners...
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Slight thread drift, I've a hazy recollection of hearing about a synchronised aerobatic display between a real Tiger Moth and an R/C one - not in formation obviously! Anyone recall it, might have been the Barnstormers...?
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Thank you all for your comments, it seems theres a split between those who think its just stupid and those who think it would be cool!
The model has about 10 kts over the cub but its also suprisingly good at slow speed too. The plan is to keep it slightly ahead, below and to the right of the cub, being a l/h circuit that will ensure the wing is always above the model so its in sight at all times.
A normal circuit (which has been timed) was about 2 mins and flat out battery life in the jet is 6 mins or more.
The transmitter range is more than enough and there is no noticable interference caused at all, but if the signal is lost the model shuts down and with nothing and no one to hit on the ground its only the model that suffers.
I would say id put on a video if we did it for those who also think it would be cool to try, but i think its one i ought to keep to my myself! If it even works of course
The model has about 10 kts over the cub but its also suprisingly good at slow speed too. The plan is to keep it slightly ahead, below and to the right of the cub, being a l/h circuit that will ensure the wing is always above the model so its in sight at all times.
A normal circuit (which has been timed) was about 2 mins and flat out battery life in the jet is 6 mins or more.
The transmitter range is more than enough and there is no noticable interference caused at all, but if the signal is lost the model shuts down and with nothing and no one to hit on the ground its only the model that suffers.
I would say id put on a video if we did it for those who also think it would be cool to try, but i think its one i ought to keep to my myself! If it even works of course
If you used two transmitters, one on the ground and one in the air, you could get both model and full-size aircraft airborne, then either with a prearranged light signal or by radio, hand control over by simultaneous switching off/on the transmitters using a countdown.
Flying opposite hand circuits with an agreed 'glass wall' so that the airborne pilot can take over when the model is ahead and to one side of the model at handover would help. As with 'buddy box' flying it is important that trim and throttle positions are all confirmed so nothing sudden happens on hand over.
The full-size pilot should be flying a pre-agreed circuit once hand over is complete, and it should obviously be over open countryside (preferably empty farmland or water).
Allow plenty of time well in advance to cover all the possible things that might go wrong with either aircraft, comms, unexpected traffic, you name it. You don't want to have to be making decisions on the hoof. The full-size pilot should just fly a nice steady pattern. Chasing the model around the sky shouldn't be an option.
For the full-size aircraft I would have thought a microlight trike would give much better visibility than a Cub. You have to remember that the full-size pilot won't be able to concentrate on keeping the model in sight, so what do you do if it goes in a blind spot? First person video would at least let you see the full-size aircraft from the model, even if you can't see it.
As has been mentioned, models have been flown from helicopters, and I should think it has been done for filmwork as well. The secret is in the planning. How about seeing if you can control an R/C buggy from the air when the wind is blowing down the strip, and how long you can keep an R/C slope soarer or even your F-16 'foamie' hovering within a frame to one side of you when standing on a hill in a good wind?
Finally, can it all be done with the approval of the CAA and within the terms of the aircraft's insurance? Evidence of planning, risk assessments and relevant experience count far more than 'Hey y'all watch this'.
Flying opposite hand circuits with an agreed 'glass wall' so that the airborne pilot can take over when the model is ahead and to one side of the model at handover would help. As with 'buddy box' flying it is important that trim and throttle positions are all confirmed so nothing sudden happens on hand over.
The full-size pilot should be flying a pre-agreed circuit once hand over is complete, and it should obviously be over open countryside (preferably empty farmland or water).
Allow plenty of time well in advance to cover all the possible things that might go wrong with either aircraft, comms, unexpected traffic, you name it. You don't want to have to be making decisions on the hoof. The full-size pilot should just fly a nice steady pattern. Chasing the model around the sky shouldn't be an option.
For the full-size aircraft I would have thought a microlight trike would give much better visibility than a Cub. You have to remember that the full-size pilot won't be able to concentrate on keeping the model in sight, so what do you do if it goes in a blind spot? First person video would at least let you see the full-size aircraft from the model, even if you can't see it.
As has been mentioned, models have been flown from helicopters, and I should think it has been done for filmwork as well. The secret is in the planning. How about seeing if you can control an R/C buggy from the air when the wind is blowing down the strip, and how long you can keep an R/C slope soarer or even your F-16 'foamie' hovering within a frame to one side of you when standing on a hill in a good wind?
Finally, can it all be done with the approval of the CAA and within the terms of the aircraft's insurance? Evidence of planning, risk assessments and relevant experience count far more than 'Hey y'all watch this'.
Last edited by Mechta; 28th May 2011 at 22:54.
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go for it !
we want more.
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How about controling a guy with a jet back instead!?
YouTube - ‪Martin Jetpack 5000ft flight - highlights‬‏
YouTube - ‪Martin Jetpack 5000ft flight - highlights‬‏
There is a tremendous amount of misinformation and speculation on this thread! Indeed the link to CAP658 is about the only useful post!!
The facts.....
The "400ft rule" applies only to models over 7KG. Above this weight they can only (legally) be flown higher inside an ATZ (obviously with permission) or if a special NOTAM is obtained, as is normal for model shows and large events.
Models over 20KG require a CAA exemption which is obtained via the Large Model Association (LMA) who act on behalf of the CAA. The model has to be inspected during the building process, have certain redundancy within its onboard systems, and pass a supervised test flight program. It is then "licensed" to be flown only by certain named pilots.
All models are subject to the "catch all" provisions of the ANO such as not recklessly or negligently endangering etc. etc.
Also, in the UK a model can only legally be flown within the unaided sight of the pilot. There is a new special procedure for so called "First Person View" systems where the pilot wears goggles to view a TV picture from an on-board camera. In this case the master transmitter must be held by a person flying the model normally. He can give control to another transmitter (buddy box) used by the person wearing the goggles. However, the pilot with the master transmitter must not allow the model to go out of his unaided sight and must re-take control if there is any danger of this happening. He is legally responsible for the safety of the whole flight (i.e PIC).
All of this relates to recreational model flying. There are other rules for commercial unmanned aerial vehicles.
Hope this helps.
The facts.....
The "400ft rule" applies only to models over 7KG. Above this weight they can only (legally) be flown higher inside an ATZ (obviously with permission) or if a special NOTAM is obtained, as is normal for model shows and large events.
Models over 20KG require a CAA exemption which is obtained via the Large Model Association (LMA) who act on behalf of the CAA. The model has to be inspected during the building process, have certain redundancy within its onboard systems, and pass a supervised test flight program. It is then "licensed" to be flown only by certain named pilots.
All models are subject to the "catch all" provisions of the ANO such as not recklessly or negligently endangering etc. etc.
Also, in the UK a model can only legally be flown within the unaided sight of the pilot. There is a new special procedure for so called "First Person View" systems where the pilot wears goggles to view a TV picture from an on-board camera. In this case the master transmitter must be held by a person flying the model normally. He can give control to another transmitter (buddy box) used by the person wearing the goggles. However, the pilot with the master transmitter must not allow the model to go out of his unaided sight and must re-take control if there is any danger of this happening. He is legally responsible for the safety of the whole flight (i.e PIC).
All of this relates to recreational model flying. There are other rules for commercial unmanned aerial vehicles.
Hope this helps.
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The Tiger Club did some RC model flying in formation with a Tiger Moth with the modeller standing on the Tiger's wing. It was late 60's I believe. Does anyone have any photographs I wonder? I don't believe that it was flown at an airshow though as was the original intention.
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Problem is
Whenever you try and do something new and innovative there's always a small army of people to say "no" and very few people to say go for it. It's because that's the easier / safer thing to do.
If the Wright brothers tried flying, for the first time today, they would never get off the ground! They wouldn't have insurance to cover them, there would be some sort of licensing / permit / tax issue to sort out (sorry mate, it needs an MOT because it's petrol driven but I can't give you one because of x,y,z). They would need some sort of crash helmet that hadn't been invented yet.
The very fact you can't ride a Segway in the UK in public, due to 'elf n safety, just shows what a ridiculous, nanny state we've become.
I say go for it! There's no doubt it's a but dangerous but there again so is climbing Everest, going to the moon or pretty much anything we call "progress"
If the Wright brothers tried flying, for the first time today, they would never get off the ground! They wouldn't have insurance to cover them, there would be some sort of licensing / permit / tax issue to sort out (sorry mate, it needs an MOT because it's petrol driven but I can't give you one because of x,y,z). They would need some sort of crash helmet that hadn't been invented yet.
The very fact you can't ride a Segway in the UK in public, due to 'elf n safety, just shows what a ridiculous, nanny state we've become.
I say go for it! There's no doubt it's a but dangerous but there again so is climbing Everest, going to the moon or pretty much anything we call "progress"
