Volcanic Ash density effect on Piston engines
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Pegase Driver
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From: Europe
Volcanic Ash density effect on Piston engines
You all seen this I guess :
Met Office: Air ash concentration charts North Atlantic area Public
Does anyone knows if flying a Lycoming into the blue area ( >2000) has any effect ? I mean serious scentific reasoning, not just based on gut feelings.
Met Office: Air ash concentration charts North Atlantic area Public
Does anyone knows if flying a Lycoming into the blue area ( >2000) has any effect ? I mean serious scentific reasoning, not just based on gut feelings.
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From: Midlands
Depends what you mean by scientific! I and a lot of other people flew through most of the last eruption. We all kept a very good check on the air filters and nothing unusual was found. If you can see it you can probably avoid or divert to avoid the cloud, if you cannot see it (assuming good VFR) your filter should protect your engine, as that is what it does filter. Might be a good idea to check your filter is in good nick and not nearly clogged to start with.
Rod1
Rod1
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From: South
Little if any effect on the engine itself.
Lycoming is an internal combustion engine. Whether fuel injected or carbed, the airflow into the cylinders will pass through an air filter, which should clean most of the ash out of the air.
The ash might have some abrasive effect on the propeller, especially if operated for a long period of time (although generally very light, ash particles tend to be extremely abrasive).
So as long as your air filters are well maintained you shouldn't have a problem, but be prepared to keep an extremely close eye on the engine in flight, and scour the filters (air and oil) and the propeller post and pre flight.
Disclaimer: Although I have some knowledge, don't go flying using this post as your "this guy said it's ok". I've just used logic to answer your question, not gut instinct as requested.
Lycoming is an internal combustion engine. Whether fuel injected or carbed, the airflow into the cylinders will pass through an air filter, which should clean most of the ash out of the air.
The ash might have some abrasive effect on the propeller, especially if operated for a long period of time (although generally very light, ash particles tend to be extremely abrasive).
So as long as your air filters are well maintained you shouldn't have a problem, but be prepared to keep an extremely close eye on the engine in flight, and scour the filters (air and oil) and the propeller post and pre flight.
Disclaimer: Although I have some knowledge, don't go flying using this post as your "this guy said it's ok". I've just used logic to answer your question, not gut instinct as requested.
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From: Amsterdam
although generally very light, ash particles tend to be extremely abrasive
I have camped at Landmannalauger (or however it's spelled) in Iceland once. The campsite is on top of a 1960s or so lava stream, and near the foot of a 10-meter high 1980s lava stream. Both who came from the volcano Hekla. It's an incredibly stunning scenery.
We knew the ground was sharp from the lava, so we put down *three* layers of plastic before putting the tent up. Still the lava was able to puncture my Thermarest mattress in multiple places, through those three layers of plastic and through a sturdy groundsheet.
In addition to the clogging of filters and abrasive effects on the propellor, also expect abrasion of anything subjected to the air stream itself, particularly the (perspex) windscreen and (perspex) lens covers. And check your pitot/static system for any ash that may have found its way into it.
(Again, not based on scientific research but common sense.)
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From: Daventry UK
It would be interesting to know what affect the ash is having on all those cars in Iceland that we see on TV driving through it? A quick Google doesn't bring up anything relevant.
Of course modern cars will have a far better filtering than a typical PA28 where the filter box is often loose in the cowling, but the exposure of cars to ash is also far more than anything we would fly through.
Of course modern cars will have a far better filtering than a typical PA28 where the filter box is often loose in the cowling, but the exposure of cars to ash is also far more than anything we would fly through.
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Pegase Driver
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From: Europe
4015, many thanks, don't worry I am not american 
I was thinking along the same common sense lines but did not have the real knowledge. You helped , Thanks again
Good point regarding propeller
On the air filters I doubt standard aircraft filters can stop particles as low a 2000 micrograms, but even if they did, the periods with carb heat on won't be covered. But those are brief and fortunately we're in Summer conditions now.
Backpacker : direct perplex abrasion, not in our speeds I would say.. Unless you pass a dry cloth on it to clean it after parking.
I was thinking along the same common sense lines but did not have the real knowledge. You helped , Thanks again
Good point regarding propeller
On the air filters I doubt standard aircraft filters can stop particles as low a 2000 micrograms, but even if they did, the periods with carb heat on won't be covered. But those are brief and fortunately we're in Summer conditions now.
Backpacker : direct perplex abrasion, not in our speeds I would say.. Unless you pass a dry cloth on it to clean it after parking.
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From: north of barlu
Last year my four aircraft did a lot of flying when the airlines were shutdown, as advised by the CAA we did checks on the aircraft and we found nothing at all.
So at this range from the volcanic ash sorce I think there is nothing to worry about with a piston engine in VFR.
Lets just hope that the idiots who shut airports to VFR piston traffic don't try to repeat that bit of stupidity.
So at this range from the volcanic ash sorce I think there is nothing to worry about with a piston engine in VFR.
Lets just hope that the idiots who shut airports to VFR piston traffic don't try to repeat that bit of stupidity.
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From: EuroGA.org
I flew through the last "ash cloud" and my oil analysis (Aviation Labs in the USA) showed no significant variation afterwards.
Nor did I see any contamination on any filters.
The beneficiaries of this hysteria are shysters like Eurostar whose ticket prices were rising this morning, going up by about 30% in the time (a few minutes) it took me to fill in the online ticket purchase form, about an hour after Ryanair's flight cancellations appeared in the news
These people should get a job in the City. With morals like that, I reckon they would be pretty good.
Nor did I see any contamination on any filters.
The beneficiaries of this hysteria are shysters like Eurostar whose ticket prices were rising this morning, going up by about 30% in the time (a few minutes) it took me to fill in the online ticket purchase form, about an hour after Ryanair's flight cancellations appeared in the news
These people should get a job in the City. With morals like that, I reckon they would be pretty good.
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From: Belgium
These people should get a job in the City. With morals like that, I reckon they would be pretty good.
And in this matter, Eurostar is doing nothing else than following the major airlines who, incidentally, often recruit in the City to staff their ticketing "dealing room".
I agree with you in full that some operators benefit from volcanic ash hysteria, but they are usually not the ones that cultivate / drive / cause it. That is more the prerogative of some civil servants or support staff in a self aggrandissement exercise.
Sorry if I'm behind the curve here, but why don't you fly from Shoreham to Lille / Ostend / Antwerp / Toussus or wherever it is you want to be ?
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From: EuroGA.org
While I agree that on the retail side commodity pricing practices are certainly not the norm, they are more common than you think.
why don't you fly from Shoreham to Lille / Ostend / Antwerp / Toussus or wherever it is you want to be ?
A flight to Paris is no more useful than a £140 ticket on Eurostar, really. A little quicker maybe, comparing like for like. I did think of that but it didn't appear to offer anything, over 2 "simple" trains (1 to London and Eurostar from there).
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From: Belgium
This might be of interest...
http://www.lycoming.com/support/tips...nouncement.pdf
This is what they wrote after last years' eruption. They "advise against engine operation in areas where volcanic ash is present - in the air or on the ground" and cite "the dynamic conditions associated with volcanic ash" as reason.
Now part of this is of course "cover your backside". If you were to ask Toyota whether it is ok to drive your car through X mg/m^3 concentrations of volcanic ash, you would probably get a similar response.
The quality of the air filter is going to be crucial. The difference between the Toyota and your reciprocating engine airplane is that you cannot simply go out to an auto-parts supplier and replace it
As for the insurance, that of course depends on what is written on the insurance papers (both the personal accident and the hull damage papers).
Standard PPRUNE disclaimer applies
This is what they wrote after last years' eruption. They "advise against engine operation in areas where volcanic ash is present - in the air or on the ground" and cite "the dynamic conditions associated with volcanic ash" as reason.
Now part of this is of course "cover your backside". If you were to ask Toyota whether it is ok to drive your car through X mg/m^3 concentrations of volcanic ash, you would probably get a similar response.
The quality of the air filter is going to be crucial. The difference between the Toyota and your reciprocating engine airplane is that you cannot simply go out to an auto-parts supplier and replace it
As for the insurance, that of course depends on what is written on the insurance papers (both the personal accident and the hull damage papers).
Standard PPRUNE disclaimer applies
Disclaimer: Although I have some knowledge, don't go flying using this post as your "this guy said it's ok". I've just used logic to answer your question, not gut instinct as requested.
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From: EuroGA.org
However, if the air filter was important, it implies that one should be able to see some ask stuck to it.
I never saw anything on it. It was spotless.
I think the whole issue is just like it has been since the dawn of aviation. It is safe to fly through the area provided you avoid visible concentrations. This is what jet pilots have been doing all over the world (Iceland is not the only place with volcanoes).
Obviously it means not flying at night or higher altitude IMC.
I never saw anything on it. It was spotless.
I think the whole issue is just like it has been since the dawn of aviation. It is safe to fly through the area provided you avoid visible concentrations. This is what jet pilots have been doing all over the world (Iceland is not the only place with volcanoes).
Obviously it means not flying at night or higher altitude IMC.
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From: UK
Standard PPRUNE disclaimer applies
Quote:
Disclaimer: Although I have some knowledge, don't go flying using this post as your "this guy said it's ok". I've just used logic to answer your question, not gut instinct as requested.
Quote:
Disclaimer: Although I have some knowledge, don't go flying using this post as your "this guy said it's ok". I've just used logic to answer your question, not gut instinct as requested.
We are not giving expert advice on pprune (which is why a lot that is written is cr@@), it is an anonymous forum and you are expressing and opinion.
You are not going to get sued if you are wrong!
We all really need to stop looking over our sholders to see if a lawyer is sculking in the hangar.
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From: EuroGA.org
We all really need to stop looking over our sholders to see if a lawyer is sculking in the hangar.
Volcanic ash particles are typically around 10 microns in diameter - I think that's probably a smaller size than most light aeroplane air filters will trap.
As I said, I did not see any obvious effect after last year's business.
Some metals were up, some were down. These things happen normally.
I would be more concerned about gyro bearings of vac driven horizons getting worn out.
