Jerry cans in aircraft
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Just as a note.
I have a small boat on the Thames with a 35hp Honda outboard with 2x 30ltr plastic detachable tanks with snap on fuel lines.
I come across the follow problems frequently.
Filling fuel cans with mogas is restricted at UK fuel stations. The limits are 5ltr in a plastic can or 10ltr in a metal can but unrestricted in a detachable fuel tank. Some don't know the rules some do i.e Sainsburys but don't know the difference between a tank and can so won't fill anything over 5ltr.
I have a small boat on the Thames with a 35hp Honda outboard with 2x 30ltr plastic detachable tanks with snap on fuel lines.
I come across the follow problems frequently.
Filling fuel cans with mogas is restricted at UK fuel stations. The limits are 5ltr in a plastic can or 10ltr in a metal can but unrestricted in a detachable fuel tank. Some don't know the rules some do i.e Sainsburys but don't know the difference between a tank and can so won't fill anything over 5ltr.
We're now (and still) in the EU The restrictions you quote are for fuel carried in a vehicle for use in it. The volume which can be transported in a private vehicle for your use in, eg a plane or boat, is much higher. It used to be 200 litres but might now be 299???
The Dangerous goods legislation points to ICAO Doc 9284 for the definition of dangerous goods.
The only snag with that is that document is only available to commercial operators and not to Joe Public.
There are many things that the airlines prohibit, but are regularly carried on private flights like fire extinguishers and gas bottles in life-jackets and rafts.
I can't recall that the act has ever been invoked for a private flight.
The only snag with that is that document is only available to commercial operators and not to Joe Public.
There are many things that the airlines prohibit, but are regularly carried on private flights like fire extinguishers and gas bottles in life-jackets and rafts.
I can't recall that the act has ever been invoked for a private flight.
Just look here under flammable liquids.
Dangerous Goods | Aircraft | Operations and Safety
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UV
I find that page singularly unhelpful. It does not quote specific regulations and seems to be a regurgitation of the advice for passengers on commercial flights.
"Advice" on a web page that isn't backed up by chapter and verse, is of no real use.
I would suggest contacting the CAA with specific details and requesting specific reference to any applicable regulation.
I find that page singularly unhelpful. It does not quote specific regulations and seems to be a regurgitation of the advice for passengers on commercial flights.
"Advice" on a web page that isn't backed up by chapter and verse, is of no real use.
I would suggest contacting the CAA with specific details and requesting specific reference to any applicable regulation.
It does not quote specific regulations and seems to be a regurgitation of the advice for passengers on commercial flights.
The CAA's view has always been that the same Dangerous Goods advice applies to private flights as commercial operations.
See here as well...
https://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=2428
where it says...
The UK legal requirements for the carriage of dangerous goods by air are contained within the Air Navigation (Dangerous Goods) Regulations AN(DG)Rs and are applicable to all aircraft registered in the UK and all foreign registered aircraft operating within UK airspace, including private pilots, aircraft and helicopters owners and operators
Seems clear to me.
Last edited by UV; 18th May 2015 at 17:38.
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The UK legal requirements for the carriage of dangerous goods by air are contained within the Air Navigation (Dangerous Goods) Regulations AN(DG)Rs and are applicable to all aircraft registered in the UK and all foreign registered aircraft operating within UK airspace, including private pilots, aircraft and helicopters owners and operators
Suffice to say that I didn't request permission for carrying pyrotechnic flares and an unapproved life raft on a private flight.
And those regulations define dangerous goods according to Doc 9284, which is not available to private pilots. Which brings us full circle.
https://ia700700.us.archive.org/31/i....9284.2011.pdf
Just a few seconds googling found it.
Sorry I dont see your problem with this!
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That's interesting as you won't find that document on the ICAO web site and it doesn't appear to be the current edition or on an official government web site.
That said, a brief look at it shows that there is a limited reference to dangerous goods of the operator in section 2.2.1. Most everything else seems to apply to goods or freight consigned by a passenger or freight forwarder.
I still think that this is a murky grey area for private flights. For instance the carriage of pyrotechnic flares is not required for private flights and doesn't qualify for the exemption of 2.2.1a, but they are routinely carried on over water flights. I'd still be interested if there was a published version of the current 9284 as ICAO explicitly won't authorise its public availability.
I presume Sam is interested in either travelling through or operating in areas where avgas isn't easily available. The options are either getting drums of Avgas delivered in advance, installing ferry tanks or carrying fuel containers on board the aircraft. That third option is not unusual and routinely done by pilots flying in those areas. If the proper precautions are taken it isn't unduly hazardous. The CAA is notoriously difficult in approving ferry tanks. The FAA can issue a field approval and that is normally accepted by other states for ferry operations.
That said, a brief look at it shows that there is a limited reference to dangerous goods of the operator in section 2.2.1. Most everything else seems to apply to goods or freight consigned by a passenger or freight forwarder.
I still think that this is a murky grey area for private flights. For instance the carriage of pyrotechnic flares is not required for private flights and doesn't qualify for the exemption of 2.2.1a, but they are routinely carried on over water flights. I'd still be interested if there was a published version of the current 9284 as ICAO explicitly won't authorise its public availability.
I presume Sam is interested in either travelling through or operating in areas where avgas isn't easily available. The options are either getting drums of Avgas delivered in advance, installing ferry tanks or carrying fuel containers on board the aircraft. That third option is not unusual and routinely done by pilots flying in those areas. If the proper precautions are taken it isn't unduly hazardous. The CAA is notoriously difficult in approving ferry tanks. The FAA can issue a field approval and that is normally accepted by other states for ferry operations.
So. To sum up.
When filling cans at a petrol station. Leave them in the boot.
When carrying them in your aircraft, strap them in well. As close to the CoG as possible.
Don't do aeros.
Don't smoke.
Happy flying.
When filling cans at a petrol station. Leave them in the boot.
When carrying them in your aircraft, strap them in well. As close to the CoG as possible.
Don't do aeros.
Don't smoke.
Happy flying.
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FM, I know it was a jest but you absolutely must not fill them in the boot from a safety perspective. The containers should sit on the ground, and it's wise to equalize the potential between the car, containers, you and the pump before you start filling.
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Assumed you were reponding to the mentioned difficulties encountered at some service stations when they see the size and nature of what you're filling. Apologies if I mis-read. But the containers have to be out of the car when filling.
. I guess I've had 30 lucky years. Time to stop?
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Being facetious, global warming might indeed be a cause to re-think! But it's true that a humid or wet climate tends to suppress spark generation. While many people know about static 'zaps' when getting out of cars due to charge build-up, one spark mechanism not always mentioned is that which comes from charge build-up during the act of transferring the fuel itself. Both are reduced in the wet. Guess it's a question of how lucky you feel.
In Australia, we have regular service station forecourt episodes stemming from people filling their boat, mower etc containers located in the car or, in one recent case worthy of a Darwin award, while holding the plastic container.
I regularly transport and fill jerry cans to re-fuel my aircraft and, with care, it's a safe operation. There are quite a few re-fuelling guides around, including an AOPA article:
Do-It-Yourself Don'ts When fueling your airplane, it pays to be safe - Flight Training
In Australia, we have regular service station forecourt episodes stemming from people filling their boat, mower etc containers located in the car or, in one recent case worthy of a Darwin award, while holding the plastic container.
I regularly transport and fill jerry cans to re-fuel my aircraft and, with care, it's a safe operation. There are quite a few re-fuelling guides around, including an AOPA article:
Do-It-Yourself Don'ts When fueling your airplane, it pays to be safe - Flight Training
Last edited by tecman; 20th May 2015 at 00:45.
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Portable gasoline containers must be on the ground before being filled.
You ground the airplane before you fill it, gasoline cans are similarly not grounded (bonded to the gasoline pump) until you do something to ground them. As automotive gasoline stations do not have grounding cables to bond the cans to the pump, "grounding" them is the only way.
The hose between the pump and the nozzle has a bonding wire, so if the nozzle is the first thing to bond the pump to the neck of the can, a spark could result.
You ground the airplane before you fill it, gasoline cans are similarly not grounded (bonded to the gasoline pump) until you do something to ground them. As automotive gasoline stations do not have grounding cables to bond the cans to the pump, "grounding" them is the only way.
The hose between the pump and the nozzle has a bonding wire, so if the nozzle is the first thing to bond the pump to the neck of the can, a spark could result.
