Travel in Europe without passport?

[G-Atlast]

I recently had an opportunity to go on a club flyout to Ostend. Unfortunately I did not check my passport until a couple of weeks before the event and when I did I found that it had expired! While I applied for a new one immediately, it did not (hardly surprisingly) turn up in time for the trip. This led me to do some further investigations and as far as I can see, for travel within the EU by an EU citizen it is only necessary to have an EU approved official form of identity, not necessarily an actual passport. As I have a current UK photo-id driving licence (one of the official valid forms of ID) this should in theory be acceptable. Has anybody here actually travelled using alternative ID (especially via GA), and if so how did you get on? The GENDEC form only refers to passport numbers as ID and when I phoned AOPA for their opinion they weren't sure either way. A check of the Belgium Embassy website clearly states that a passport is required for entry- surely this cannot be be correct in the wonderful world of Europe ? Rather then cause any problems for the others on the trip I decided to miss out this time and put it down to experience.

[Capetonian]

There seem to be many grey areas but my understanding is that for travel within the Schengen zone, which GB is not part of, you do not need a passport, but you do need acceptable documentary proof that you are an EU citizen or resident.

To travel to/from GB, you would need a passport.

[Jan Olieslagers]

Sorry, no beginning of a definite answer - but I can't help wondering why you didn't ask in Ostend. Either call the airport operator directly - the number is in the AIP - or I should think the nice people at NZVC would be glad to offer advice.

That said, the Brits have decided to let Europe's best wonder pass them by, for good or for bad. And I do recall that, as a Belgian citizen, I found British entry control more than satisfied with my simple identity card. But then, do I recall there is no such thing as in identity card in the UK, so it has to be either a full-blown passport or secondary proof like a driver's or pilot's license?

[patowalker]

A UK photo driver's licence is only acceptable as ID in the UK.

EU nationals and citizens of Switzerland, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway can enter the UK and each other's countries with a national indentity card.

I seem to recall we were not too enthusiastic about getting our own ID cards.

[Capetonian]

EU nationals and citizens of Switzerland, Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway can enter the UK and each other's countries with a national indentity card.

In theory. I know of cases where overzealous check in staff have refused to allow EU citizens with a national ID card to board flights to the UK.

[Anonystude]

You might well get out of the UK fine, but I suspect you need your passport to prove your British Citizenship (or similar) when you get back.

[patowalker]

We should abolish the Border Agency and let check-in staff do the job for free.

[Contacttower]

I'm fairly certain a UK drivers licence is NOT a valid document for travel from the UK to the rest of the EU.

As it happens on the majority of trips to Europe I have not had my passport checked, certainly I didn't coming into Brussels Charleroi last year. Also coming back into a non-designated airports in the UK having sent a GAR form I've never known customs/immigration actually turn up to check. Probably not worth the risk though because formally one should carry it in the UK's absence of a national identity card.

[jxc]

You can go to Ireland with your UK drivers licence but that is it

[IO540]

There is stuff in the press about Schengen being dismantled, to the extent that passport checks will be coming back.

Anyway, if you fly an N-reg a passport is mandatory - this is from the office of the FAA chief counsel. A driving license with a picture is not sufficient despite apparently meeting the requirements of the FARs, for some reason I don't recall.

[Whirlygig]

To travel to/from GB, you would need a passport.

Apart from to/from Republic of Ireland ... photo ID only need there now and maybe not even that for a private flight.

Cheers

Whirls

[patowalker]

A driving license with a picture is not sufficient despite apparently meeting the requirements of the FARs, for some reason I don't recall.

The FAR's refer to driving licences issued by States, of the United type, rather than nation, and then only to cross-check against the non-photo pilot's licence.

Presumably the requirement to carry a driver's licence will be dropped when photo pilot licences become mandatory.

[1800ed]

I went as a passenger to Oostende on a day trip. I forgot my passport so I had the pleasure of sitting in the aircraft on the ramp for a day - the man at border control said that was the UK wasn't a Schengen country I couldn't come in.

[Contacttower]

I went as a passenger to Oostende on a day trip. I forgot my passport so I had the pleasure of sitting in the aircraft on the ramp for a day - the man at border control said that was the UK wasn't a Schengen country I couldn't come in.

Sounds like you made the right choice by staying at home then G-Atlast...

[Pilot DAR]

I once entered Germany at Bremerhaven on a private flight in a DC-3, from Ireland (where we had just been in the "in transit" lounge only - not cleared in by immigration). There were no German authorities around, so the air traffic controller stamped our passports - later in the afternoon, after we were settled in, and had had a nice lunch.

Last year, I flew from Amsterdam on KLM, to Bergen, Norway, and had my passport in hand upon arrival. Not only did the Norwegian authorities not ask to see it, they would not stamp it when I asked.

I don't know what the EU rules are, but they are apparently much more relaxed than those for crossing the Canada/US border! Last week, when flying commercial to California, US immigration would not let me enter the US, until I could produce a California street address where I would be staying. Lucky my client had emailed me my local hotel reservation, or I'd have been refused entry! Oh, and passports are mandatory for Canadians entering the US....

[IO540]

Usually, nobody cares if you are leaving their country. Why should they care?

But there are exceptions (especially Greece, Italy, Spain) and you never know...

On arrival, it usually does get looked at but again there are exceptions.

If you pass through an airport where there is H24 police presence then it will most likely be looked at, because they need to keep up their workload.

[patowalker]

Usually, nobody cares if you are leaving their country. Why should they care?

Because you might owe them money? I have worked in at least three countries where locally employed foreigners were required to prove their income tax payments were up-to-date before being allowed out. This involved providing the tax authorities with a bank guarantee and the whole process took about three days.

[Capetonian]

Passport control when you leave some countries is as stringent as when you enter, SA is a case in point, they want to make sure as stated that you have paid your taxes, aren't a known criminal (other than members of the ANC) , didn't vote for the National Party, paid your taxes and speeding fines, and so on, and above all that if you are a non-resident, you didn't overstay your visa.

[IO540]

Sure, but I was referring to civilised countries.

Originating from Czechoslovakia, I know about "border control"

But border control is de facto nonexistent in the civilised West - unless you try to bring in a busload of Vietnamese

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Sure, but I was referring to civilised countries.

There aren't that many of those.

Not if you include in your definition of "civilised", as I do, that the police don't routinely wander around carrying guns.