Plymouth airport closing
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Plymouth airport closing
Here
It said the airport, which employs 56 people, had suffered "significant losses in recent years" and was facing a £1m loss over the next year.
56 employees..... what exactly did they all do???
It said the airport, which employs 56 people, had suffered "significant losses in recent years" and was facing a £1m loss over the next year.
56 employees..... what exactly did they all do???
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That is a shame as Plymouth was one of the best GA 'Airports' around. I hope that it doesn't become a housing estate.
I don't know why the local governments don't run these airports as per the USA and use them to encourage busniness in the area, rather than look on the airport as the money making venture in itself.
I don't know why the local governments don't run these airports as per the USA and use them to encourage busniness in the area, rather than look on the airport as the money making venture in itself.
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Bugger all apart from making life difficult for visitors.
It was inevitible really. Prime building land. They will just extend the housing estate currently being built on the edge of the airfield I suspect.
Shame really as it is slowly strangling business links to the SW.
It was inevitible really. Prime building land. They will just extend the housing estate currently being built on the edge of the airfield I suspect.
Shame really as it is slowly strangling business links to the SW.
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I don't know why the local governments don't run these airports as per the USA and use them to encourage busniness in the area, rather than look on the airport as the money making venture in itself.
For instance .....
Newcastle airport for sale as owners look to tackle debts
Bosses silent over Newcastle Airport sale claims - Today's News - News - JournalLive
Before this, they ran the aeroclub at Newcastle until that went under!
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Very sad. But it's economics - where are all those people in the UK who made horse bridles, dug coal, built ships?
Still sad though.
I have a terrible glum feeling that we've already lived through the best years of light aviation. I'll try to forget I said that - depressing.
Still sad though.
I have a terrible glum feeling that we've already lived through the best years of light aviation. I'll try to forget I said that - depressing.
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Simply because local governments haven't got a clue what they are doing, needlessly spend money, waste money and have no clue whatsoever how to run a successful commercial operation!
The other half is that the hypothetical airport is traditionally run by an empire builder character who has a great gift of the gab and who feeds the local govt a load of bu11***t, using "safety" as the scare word to get his way whenever necessary (and local govt officials are petrified of any compromise on "safety") and it is only when the airport has recruited about 5x more staff than is needed and runs up £ millions of losses that the local govt numpties panic and get rid of it. And who ends up buying it?
To hear that Plymouth had 56 employees makes me sick. But, in the UK especially, if you advertise a £100k job inspecting the thickness of chocolate bar wrappers, with a company car, thousands of people will apply.
Really the councillors responsible for allowing this to happen should be sacked. To say you've been had is not an excuse.
There are hardly any airports down that part of the UK already. Plymouth is a giant low-grade council estate and it will go down the pan even quicker without decent business links.
I have a terrible glum feeling that we've already lived through the best years of light aviation
But there are bright bits abroad. The former communist countries have opened up, and in some cases (Croatia, Slovenia) have opened up superb destinations. You just need a decent plane to get there...
Simply because local governments haven't got a clue what they are doing, needlessly spend money, waste money and have no clue whatsoever how to run a successful commercial operation! For instance .....
The airport is owned and managed by the Manchester Airports Group which is a holding company owned by the ten metropolitan borough councils of Greater Manchester , with Manchester City Council owning the largest stake and is the largest British-owned airport group.
Manchester was set up by its City Council pre-1939, run and developed by the same for decades and is now run by a public consortium led by the same. A rather successful long term commercial operation in the eyes of many
Last edited by connoisseur; 28th Apr 2011 at 11:06. Reason: grammar!
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I was always surprised by the complete lack of activity within the small terminal building even before an Air Southwest Dash 8 was due to depart.
It's a shame because I've enjoyed the couple of flights I've done from there. However I had just made up my mind to fly from Bodmin instead as it's £50/hr cheaper to PPL hire a C152 (according to the 'Where to Fly Guide' in this months Pilot magazine). Looks like that decision would have been made for me anyway, it's just the trouble of getting there.
It's a shame because I've enjoyed the couple of flights I've done from there. However I had just made up my mind to fly from Bodmin instead as it's £50/hr cheaper to PPL hire a C152 (according to the 'Where to Fly Guide' in this months Pilot magazine). Looks like that decision would have been made for me anyway, it's just the trouble of getting there.
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A rather successful long term commercial operation in the eyes of many
employing 56 people to run Plymouth airport
?
One cannot run smaller airports the way one can run the big ones. Look at Gatwick. The place is massively over-staffed. There is a yellow jacket standing on every corner, desperately trying to look busy. The only way the place can stay afloat is by getting a nice juicy landing fee off somebody every few minutes, and from massive commercial property income paid by the "duty free" ripoff merchants who sell you a £3 tube of hand cream for £8, after the yellow jacket chimp earlier on has confiscated your own one.
Places like Plymouth need to be run very differently (like a proper business
).
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Plymouth City Airport Limited, a wholly owned subsidiary of the Company, holds a 150 year lease agreement with Plymouth City Council for the airport (143 years unexpired at a peppercorn rent). The Company will retain the lease following the closure of the airport.
In line with its stated intention the Company is focused on waterfront regeneration and developing new opportunities closely related to its core marine and regeneration activities.
In line with its stated intention the Company is focused on waterfront regeneration and developing new opportunities closely related to its core marine and regeneration activities.
Sutton Harbour have already sold their airline interests back in September 2010,
Air Southwest is to have new owners with the announcement that award-winning Eastern Airways are to acquire the airline.
For our customers, it is entirely "business as usual" as we will continue to fly under the Air Southwest brand.
Richard Lake, Managing Director of Eastern Airways:
"As market leaders in our respective catchments this deal makes perfect sense for Eastern Airways and gives us even greater reach across the UK. Air Southwest is well regarded by its customers and we want to ensure we retain that loyalty by continuing to offer excellent service and value for money. "
The sale of Air Southwest to Eastern Airways is subject to regulatory approval.
For our customers, it is entirely "business as usual" as we will continue to fly under the Air Southwest brand.
Richard Lake, Managing Director of Eastern Airways:
"As market leaders in our respective catchments this deal makes perfect sense for Eastern Airways and gives us even greater reach across the UK. Air Southwest is well regarded by its customers and we want to ensure we retain that loyalty by continuing to offer excellent service and value for money. "
The sale of Air Southwest to Eastern Airways is subject to regulatory approval.
Roborough.
Damn it ! Yet another goes under, with the development vultures hovering in the vicinity.
Real shame. Good when it was just Plymouth Aero Club.
Did my first ever powered solo there 50 years ago this Sept. with the Britannia Flight.
Sad.
Real shame. Good when it was just Plymouth Aero Club.
Did my first ever powered solo there 50 years ago this Sept. with the Britannia Flight.
Sad.
Sorry guys, but I'm afraid you're just not getting it. Of your current favourite type of aerodrome, how many more must close down before you get it in? There is NO way an aerodrome can be a successful commercial operation with only or mainly recrational aviation funding. Whether the landing fee be 5 quid or 50 is irrelevant. Either they need big paying traffic like bizjets or airlines, or they need public funding. Both are becoming less by the day.
The only way out is to use the grounds of whoever owns a bit of land AND is enough of a fool to open it up to (more or less) public use - at her/his own terms, of course. So on the one hand be ready to offer a helping hand to any kind fool of that description to mow the grass or paint the runway centre line and numbers or do whatever needs to be done; and don't grumble at PPR on the other hand, at the contrary you should see it as a token of careful welcome. And be grateful there's a good many of that kind of fools around.
Privately owned, volunteer operated strips are the only viable alternative for those with limited pockets. Sympathise with and support their owners/operators when and wherever you can, be happy to don their modest landing fees, call them cheerfully for PPR, there is no long-term alternative for private flying on the cheap.
The only way out is to use the grounds of whoever owns a bit of land AND is enough of a fool to open it up to (more or less) public use - at her/his own terms, of course. So on the one hand be ready to offer a helping hand to any kind fool of that description to mow the grass or paint the runway centre line and numbers or do whatever needs to be done; and don't grumble at PPR on the other hand, at the contrary you should see it as a token of careful welcome. And be grateful there's a good many of that kind of fools around.
Privately owned, volunteer operated strips are the only viable alternative for those with limited pockets. Sympathise with and support their owners/operators when and wherever you can, be happy to don their modest landing fees, call them cheerfully for PPR, there is no long-term alternative for private flying on the cheap.
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Sorry guys, but I'm afraid you're just not getting it. Of your current favourite type of aerodrome, how many more must close down before you get it in? There is NO way an aerodrome can be a successful commercial operation with only or mainly recrational aviation funding. Whether the landing fee be 5 quid or 50 is irrelevant. Either they need big paying traffic like bizjets or airlines, or they need public funding.
It's probably true that with the typical UK GA traffic density, and the fact that much of the pilot community is too stingy to pay even £10 (so they fly mainly to farm strips), an airport cannot maintain a reasonable tarmac runway and some basic facilities on landing fees alone.
But it doesn't have to. Usually there is room around the place for some commercial property. It is a natural place for schools and maintenance companies and these will all pay rent. There will also be a restaurant which generates even more money.
It can be done.
The problem is that ownership with aviation commitment is not continuous and the commercial property angle leads to its destruction once the original owner (if it is just an individual) sells out to some property shark who will then close the airport side, and probably redevelop the whole place.
Much depends on the catchment area. But a higher quality catchment area will also attract better funded property sharks....
In the right location, a GA airport would make sense, but it would take a bunch of well funded and committed people to do it, and perhaps some sort of trust ownership. One would need to start at the top of the market, with turboprops and light jets.
Plymouth is probably just massively over-staffed to have any hope of making ends meet.
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I used to fly out of Plymouth weekly on Air southwest & BA before that. I actually work in Plymouth & live in the North East. The Airport closing the the cancellation of flights to Newcastle is a massive pain the @rse for me! I now have to travel to Exeter to get a flight.
Plymouth is a lovely little airport, I've flown a PA28 out of the a couple of times & was planning to hire a 150 this summer. The Flying school is very friendly, but not cheap. This is because Sutton Holdings don't want them there & charge a fortune, they backhanded the council to get the lease to run the airport about 10 years ago, with every intention to run it into the ground & then develop property on the prime land. They have already built houses at the end of one of the disused runways & now it looks like it won't be long before the rest of it is covered in houses that no one can afford, Plymouth isn't exactly affluent.
It really irks me that this has happened, I spend a large portion of my childhood living near this airport, the planes are not noisy & airline was a pleasure to use, certainly a lot better than Flybe.
/rant
Plymouth is a lovely little airport, I've flown a PA28 out of the a couple of times & was planning to hire a 150 this summer. The Flying school is very friendly, but not cheap. This is because Sutton Holdings don't want them there & charge a fortune, they backhanded the council to get the lease to run the airport about 10 years ago, with every intention to run it into the ground & then develop property on the prime land. They have already built houses at the end of one of the disused runways & now it looks like it won't be long before the rest of it is covered in houses that no one can afford, Plymouth isn't exactly affluent.
It really irks me that this has happened, I spend a large portion of my childhood living near this airport, the planes are not noisy & airline was a pleasure to use, certainly a lot better than Flybe.
/rant
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they backhanded the council to get the lease to run the airport about 10 years ago, with every intention to run it into the ground & then develop property on the prime land
it would take a bunch of well funded and committed people to do it, and perhaps some sort of trust ownership
But, the problem is, how does a trust - built up of enthusiasts - put enough money together to be able to contest developer's prices?
Plymouth's Airport
When the council ran the airport it was grass field with RN Britannia Flight (Tigers then Chipmunks) and a small flying club.It was also the base for Mayflower (Rapides) flights to the Scilly Isles.
In those days the Dockyard was busy and so was Plymouth as a Naval base and it was used by the services for com flights.
The man on the radio was perched up in a quaint little hutch attached to the hangar and i think they had a VDF and later a NDB.
Then along came Bill Bryce and "Brymon". This started its real venture into the commercial world and first with Islanders and later DHC6 and DHC7 the airport was getting busy (but the club went) At this time they were involved with the idea of "Stol Port" in Docklands and the Otters were still single pilot crew.The Dash 7 was on a profitable contract in Scotland so the operation sort of worked without it costing the Council too much.Of course when they had to start spending real money on all the improvements (runways, hangars, apron,ATC,ect) it was difficult for the Council to justify them subsidising a private company so it was leased out to Brymon on favourable terms.Brymon had been an intial customer for the 7 so when Brymon hit the down turn DHC helped them out until they themselves hit the down turn.As to the workforce well i seem to remember that due to the 7 the fire crew required to cover the services on a shift basis was about 20.A back of an envelope exercise will soon show you that no one can make any money out of all this so in the end with no buildings to let out or land to rent to industry (no subsidy no airport).
The fact that Exeter (just down the road) was capable of developing itself for larger aircraft and more destinations did not really leave Plymouth with a market that would ever cover the real cost of the operation.
The ensuing years saw it being surrounded with housing (and complaints) so it was ineviatable what its fate would be.
However history will show it did quite well to go on for so long considering it started life as a Polo Pitch on the outskirts of the City.RIP Plymouth Airport you served the City well.
In those days the Dockyard was busy and so was Plymouth as a Naval base and it was used by the services for com flights.
The man on the radio was perched up in a quaint little hutch attached to the hangar and i think they had a VDF and later a NDB.
Then along came Bill Bryce and "Brymon". This started its real venture into the commercial world and first with Islanders and later DHC6 and DHC7 the airport was getting busy (but the club went) At this time they were involved with the idea of "Stol Port" in Docklands and the Otters were still single pilot crew.The Dash 7 was on a profitable contract in Scotland so the operation sort of worked without it costing the Council too much.Of course when they had to start spending real money on all the improvements (runways, hangars, apron,ATC,ect) it was difficult for the Council to justify them subsidising a private company so it was leased out to Brymon on favourable terms.Brymon had been an intial customer for the 7 so when Brymon hit the down turn DHC helped them out until they themselves hit the down turn.As to the workforce well i seem to remember that due to the 7 the fire crew required to cover the services on a shift basis was about 20.A back of an envelope exercise will soon show you that no one can make any money out of all this so in the end with no buildings to let out or land to rent to industry (no subsidy no airport).
The fact that Exeter (just down the road) was capable of developing itself for larger aircraft and more destinations did not really leave Plymouth with a market that would ever cover the real cost of the operation.
The ensuing years saw it being surrounded with housing (and complaints) so it was ineviatable what its fate would be.
However history will show it did quite well to go on for so long considering it started life as a Polo Pitch on the outskirts of the City.RIP Plymouth Airport you served the City well.
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I am not pleased to see Plymouth shut, I think it is very bad for the city and will hamper the local economy.
I am however very pleased to see the rude and obstructive security parasites out of a job.
I am however very pleased to see the rude and obstructive security parasites out of a job.
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Could not agree more about the security staff. They like to look in your wallet for razor blades.. funny, I've never had that at Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Standstead, Newcastle, Glasgow... etc.
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We are already transfering our business interests away from the southwest due to lack of links. Ironic as part of our business is making airports work commercially.
I suspect the will to make this airport viable was not strong considering the statement about the rent, the high fees charged and the development aspirations of the operator.
Odd that many airfields are owned by developers, coincidence?....................
I suspect the will to make this airport viable was not strong considering the statement about the rent, the high fees charged and the development aspirations of the operator.
Odd that many airfields are owned by developers, coincidence?....................
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coincidence?..
I have known a number of UK land/housing developers and they all play a long game, positioning themselves into opportunities, just like perverts volunteering for the boy scouts...
Sometimes the process leads nowhere, but sometimes you make a fortune.