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FAA 'piggy back' ppl. Don't move house !

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FAA 'piggy back' ppl. Don't move house !

Old 19th Apr 2011, 07:50
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FAA 'piggy back' ppl. Don't move house !

I fly some n reg craft using my FAA certificate based on my jaa ppl and ratings.

I recently notified the FAA of a change of address and asked for a new certificate.

I was previously rather pleased with my self that I had obtained certificate with much work but by visiting fsdo rep in uk and not leaving uk.

I aminformed by FAA I have to start the whole process again now I have moved and my faa certificate is now invalid. This means caa verify ppl, off to FAA, fsdo visit etc etc.

I can't be the first one in uk who has changed address with FAA 'piggy back' certificate. I have e mailed them and they have confirmed above necessary.

Has anyone managed to obtain new based on FAA cert without this ? Am moving again soon so seems little point in renewing til all complete if this is the case.

Any advice welcome.

EB
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 09:18
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Sorry that is the way it is and one reason for being better off with a stand alone.

I suppose you might be ok with a permanent po box arrangement but whether that is strictly your residential address is another question. In some countries po boxes are almost always used as mail addresses.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 09:58
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Building a house of cards on a 61.75 has been done to death on here with 10,000 posts.

It was a certificate designed for people going to US and wanting to fly in the US, not as a way of flying N Reg outside of the US. Therefore don't be surprised that it is inflexible.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 10:24
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How embarrassing.

Firstly that I didnt find this in my searches. I thought I had read everything about this subject. Mea culpa.

Secondly this is the reason I have largely left the FAA trail and am now doing the JAA IR. 2 exams at gatwick to go before flying starts ! Then just 55 hours to go.

Thanks for comments.
I will now exit quietly stage left.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 11:41
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Therefore don't be surprised that it is inflexible.
Yes, it is.

However not as inflexible as some might have you believe. Yes, potentially you cant move house, and yes there has been one issue in the last 20 odd years getting the A and W flexible friend, but as far as it goes that is really not too bad. Lets face it if you wanted to fly an N reg any where in the world for the last twenty years (or more) then as long as you havent changed address and were prepared to shell out for one trip to the US (or L2K or one of our roving friends from the States) you would have been good to go for the entire time. That is not bad really?

I suspecty if you had kept your CAA / JAA / EASA license up to date over the same period the hassle would have been greater and the cost at least equal.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 13:53
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Of course as he would have needed to keep the underlying JAA licence valid in order to keep the 61.75 certificate valid it would be a moot point on any savings.....
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 14:08
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Yes, that is also true but for those that fly both N reg and Euro reg even with a stand alone they were always going to keep both valid and with folk around who can do the revalidation on both at the same time it is not as if there are two lots of renewal fees.

I dont disagree with anything you have said Bose, I guess I am just making the observation that a 61.75 can work pretty well and although there has been a hoop to jump through recently really the amount of hassle connected with a 61.75 in the last twenty years has been surprisingly minimal.

Depending on what happens it is even possible regular visits by an FAA DPE charging a "fair" fee will become the norm. Of course our friends in Europe could put pay to everything, standalone or 61.75 - I am guessing you would not be that chuffed then if you have just done a standalone and a foreign pilot conversion or stand alone IR.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 14:34
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Depending on what happens it is even possible regular visits by an FAA DPE charging a "fair" fee will become the norm. Of course our friends in Europe could put pay to everything, standalone or 61.75 - I am guessing you would not be that chuffed then if you have just done a standalone and a foreign pilot conversion or stand alone IR.
EASA cannot control what the FAA does. And I cannot see the FAA stopping the 61.75 option just because EASA is throwing its weight around over here. The bulk of the known universe flies on FAA or FAA-based papers; Europe is just a little blob on the globe.

There should be a total of 3 ways to get the 61.75 updated in the UK but none of them cost less than a few hundred quid.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 16:47
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In the last few years, you would have needed to go through the verification process to update your 61.75 certificate because:

1. cardboard certificates no longer being valid.
2. English Language Profeciency needed to be added for flying outside the USA.

In the next few years, it's likely that you will need to go through the process again because it is likely, but not 100% certain, that your licence number will change when you get an EASA licence.

You will also need to go through the process again if:

1. Your licence number changes for some other reason
2. You move address.
3. Not sure if you'll need to do it if you lose or destroy your certificate, but I think so.


If your purpose in getting it is to fly in the USA, then this is no problem as you can visit the local FSDO and get it all sorted in time without much fuss.

The real problem is if you fly an N reg outside the USA, you might suddenly find that their certificate is no longer valid, and have to make a quick trip to the USA to get it sorted.

Against this there are saving, in not having to do the training and test for the full certificate, and not having to maintain two medicals.

I think the simple rule of thumb is that is you *Need* to be able to fly N reg is Europe, then you really ought to have a full certificate. If you simply want to fly in the USA, then the 61.75 is enough for you.

dp
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 17:03
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Playing devils advocate for a moment, does anybody know of anybody who has been prevented from flying in the USA because their 61.75 card showed a different address (but presumably the same name and licence number) to their JAR licence?

G
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 17:09
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I think some would be suprised at how many European pilots fly on 61.75 licenses. There seem to be vast numbers in Germany in particular, which resulted in some "interesting situations" when certain facilities specially arranged for updating them turned out to be harder to pin down than was expected. It however remains a topic where some commentators were threatened with legal action, etc.

I agree that with hindsight the 61.75 route was not a great idea, which is why I never did it, always referring to it as a house of cards because the power-mad European aviation regulators cannot resist playing around with their end of the arrangement, but it is a pity that it has become particularly difficult in recent years, after so many pilots have started to rely on it.

The great thing about a standalone FAA PPL/IR, or the CPL/IR which I have, is that nobody (but the FAA) can take it away from you. EASA obviously cannot touch it. And it remains good for life, for use on any US reg aircraft, or any other reg aircraft whose state of registry validates US papers (which is most countries in the world, except the protectionist EU which does it in a limited way).

Is Adam House still doing 61.75 processing? Also, an email went around a few months ago that the highly regarded Janeen Kochan was back in Europe doing FAA checkrides and 61.75 also.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 20:25
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That's not quite right SoCal App - 61.60 states that you must notify the FAA of your change of address within 30 days, but it says nothing about preventing you flying if your FAA certificate does not have the current address on it. Provided you've notified the FAA, you can carry on flying using the old one.

From Airmen Certification: Update Your Address:

We do not require that you get a new certificate when updating your address and we won't issue one automatically.
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Old 19th Apr 2011, 23:00
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Interesting, I was always under the impression that a change of address triggered the whole process again - I am very glad to learn that it does not.

I wasnt aware the introduction of photo IDs has been approved although doubtless it will come. If it has been approved do we have any idea yet of the date by which pilots will be required to replace their current license. It also begs the question with stand alone licences how the FAA will be satisfied that the photo matches the license if an application can be made other than in person?

As to visiting DPEs I understand that Janeen will more than likely be making regular visits to the UK in future (having resumed doing so earlier this year) so at least the FAA will have a useful presence here if she is able to keep up her good work. I understand our friend in L2K is still willing and able to provide his services to anyone requiring.
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Old 20th Apr 2011, 08:26
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With regards to photos it would seem this could mean stand alone and 61.78 holders will each require a visit to a DPE.
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