Release for LAA components
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 201
Likes: 9
From: Fareham
It's not simple....
The simple version is as Rod says. An appropriately approved LAA inspector can sign-off an engine rebuild. Also as Rod says, you can also do it yourself and have an inspector sign-off at critical stages. I have done several myself on this basis.
The more complex version is (by my understanding) that if the engine is an 'approved' type (e.g. Lycoming, Continental etc.) then you can only use 'approved / official' parts to rebuild it. Quite how you prove that the parts are approved / official without Form 1 (or US documents) is not really defined, but custom and practice seems to indicate that little or no paperwork trail is required. If they look like original parts and your inspector is happy to sign them off, away you go. My understanding (and I'm happy to be told otherwise) is that you can't just get on your mill or lathe and make new parts yourself.
Modifications to parts (e.g crank grinding) needs to be done according to official specifications. There is however no requirement to use an approved facility.
The better LAA inspectors (I can point you to one or two via PM) work to very high standards and will not sign off anything that would not be suitable for use in a CoA engine.
In the case of non approved engines (VW, Subaru etc.) then the situation is a bit more confused. There is no source of approved parts so you have to satisfy your inspector that what you are using is of an acceptable standard. Whilst your suitably qualified LAA inspector can sign-off for a rebuild, the LAA sometimes take quite an interest in what you are up to. I think it stems from a time when poorly converted engines (VW in particular) were not as reliable as one might have liked.
In any event, you will have to complete a comprehensive build log, detailing all the bearing clearances, ring-gaps, parts used etc.
I'd suggest a quick call to LAA Engineering.
The simple version is as Rod says. An appropriately approved LAA inspector can sign-off an engine rebuild. Also as Rod says, you can also do it yourself and have an inspector sign-off at critical stages. I have done several myself on this basis.
The more complex version is (by my understanding) that if the engine is an 'approved' type (e.g. Lycoming, Continental etc.) then you can only use 'approved / official' parts to rebuild it. Quite how you prove that the parts are approved / official without Form 1 (or US documents) is not really defined, but custom and practice seems to indicate that little or no paperwork trail is required. If they look like original parts and your inspector is happy to sign them off, away you go. My understanding (and I'm happy to be told otherwise) is that you can't just get on your mill or lathe and make new parts yourself.
Modifications to parts (e.g crank grinding) needs to be done according to official specifications. There is however no requirement to use an approved facility.
The better LAA inspectors (I can point you to one or two via PM) work to very high standards and will not sign off anything that would not be suitable for use in a CoA engine.
In the case of non approved engines (VW, Subaru etc.) then the situation is a bit more confused. There is no source of approved parts so you have to satisfy your inspector that what you are using is of an acceptable standard. Whilst your suitably qualified LAA inspector can sign-off for a rebuild, the LAA sometimes take quite an interest in what you are up to. I think it stems from a time when poorly converted engines (VW in particular) were not as reliable as one might have liked.
In any event, you will have to complete a comprehensive build log, detailing all the bearing clearances, ring-gaps, parts used etc.
I'd suggest a quick call to LAA Engineering.
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: suffolk
There is also some confusion as to terminoligy.
The only real "0" engine is an engine that has done no hrs i.e. a factory new one.
Lycoming ( for example ) can produce a zero since factory overhauled engine but some of the components may have 2000 hrs on them e.g. the crancases.
Many refurbishers offer zero since overhaul which can be your old 3000hr crankshaft reground ( having been inspected first obviously).
You can have a "rebuilt" engine whereby it has been completly stripped and checked, all components found to be within tolerance and it has been reassembled with new seals and gaskets and returned to use.
Some LAA Inspectors are cleared on a case by case basis to split crancases on such engines.They can be overhauled in accordance with the manufacturers manual or they can be rebuilt but they cannot be called 0 timed.
That is because the LAA cannot operate on a comercial basis. It could be construed that a 0 timed engine increases an aircraft's value hence this restriction.
In reality, provided the work is done properly there is no difference, because even if you have a brand new unrun engine ,as soon as you put it in an LAA airframe it is technically " on condition".
So, just to recap, the only real "0" time engine is an unrun new engine.
Any thing else is 0 (or x) SINCE overhaul, or SINCE rebuild.
The only real "0" engine is an engine that has done no hrs i.e. a factory new one.
Lycoming ( for example ) can produce a zero since factory overhauled engine but some of the components may have 2000 hrs on them e.g. the crancases.
Many refurbishers offer zero since overhaul which can be your old 3000hr crankshaft reground ( having been inspected first obviously).
You can have a "rebuilt" engine whereby it has been completly stripped and checked, all components found to be within tolerance and it has been reassembled with new seals and gaskets and returned to use.
Some LAA Inspectors are cleared on a case by case basis to split crancases on such engines.They can be overhauled in accordance with the manufacturers manual or they can be rebuilt but they cannot be called 0 timed.
That is because the LAA cannot operate on a comercial basis. It could be construed that a 0 timed engine increases an aircraft's value hence this restriction.
In reality, provided the work is done properly there is no difference, because even if you have a brand new unrun engine ,as soon as you put it in an LAA airframe it is technically " on condition".
So, just to recap, the only real "0" time engine is an unrun new engine.
Any thing else is 0 (or x) SINCE overhaul, or SINCE rebuild.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 381
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
back to topic eh?
The answer to the OP (opinions, valid or otherwise aside) is no, you do not have to have a certificate of release to service on any part on a permit aircraft and no Part 145 has no bearing on permit aircraft, or their engines. You can in fact do it entirely yourself so long as you have an appropriately qualified LAA Inspector willing to sign off the work.
The answer to the question, "should you" use a part 145 company to rebuild your engine is wholly subjective. I know I would find a person who has a reputation for quality and reliability and they may or may not have a Part145 authorisation - chances are they do but given it's the engine of my aircraft
I'll go with the safest rather than the cheapest option
Do whatever you think is safest
The answer to the question, "should you" use a part 145 company to rebuild your engine is wholly subjective. I know I would find a person who has a reputation for quality and reliability and they may or may not have a Part145 authorisation - chances are they do but given it's the engine of my aircraft
I'll go with the safest rather than the cheapest option Do whatever you think is safest
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
From: suffolk
Sorry.. wrong! One part that you have to have a release for is a prop overhaul.
Despite me being an inspector and rebuiding my own engine to overhaul standard I still had to supply the paperwork for the Hartzel o/h just as I did on the last couple that we did as well.
Despite me being an inspector and rebuiding my own engine to overhaul standard I still had to supply the paperwork for the Hartzel o/h just as I did on the last couple that we did as well.
