Sitting in the Right Hand Seat as P1.
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lets just hope he doesn't say, "So i guess OFF means cross feed right? hey did it just get real quiet?"
I'd sit in the cockpit for five minutes, close my eyes and feel the difference btween the Throttle and Mixture lever. mentally picturing each one when holding it. I know they are very different (non vernier versions anyway) but i would practice.
I'd sit in the cockpit for five minutes, close my eyes and feel the difference btween the Throttle and Mixture lever. mentally picturing each one when holding it. I know they are very different (non vernier versions anyway) but i would practice.
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How do you propose to do the power checks, as per the POH?
It would be technically illegal to allow him to switch tanks though.
Not being argumentative, just curious...
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stevelup,
I guess it's 'cos he's not a pilot, and our friend here is (presumably) not an instructor.
I am no expert though.
jollyrog, I'm also curious! Running through the PA28 c/list in my mind, but it's been a while, and I can't think of anything that would present too much difficulty...?
I guess it's 'cos he's not a pilot, and our friend here is (presumably) not an instructor.
I am no expert though.
jollyrog, I'm also curious! Running through the PA28 c/list in my mind, but it's been a while, and I can't think of anything that would present too much difficulty...?
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I guess it's 'cos he's not a pilot, and our friend here is (presumably) not an instructor.
The pilot is still P1, the passenger is still nothing more than a passenger. Unless the POH prohibits flight from the right seat as P1, there is no way it can be illegal.
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Its perfectly legal for the photographer to fly the machine never mind operate the fuel tank selector.
After partners have done the safety pilot course which I might add is a bit weird for the instructor because you teach it in the LHS they are encouraged to fly the plane and practise while flying with thier partner.
Its no great shakes operating a PA28 from the RHS. Instructors round the world do it day in day out. We don't get given any special training during the FIC in fact mostly FIC's are done in C150's. All you do is give the person in the LHS a brief on the ground when they get in, about what you want them to do and let them have a couple of shots with the engine off. The swapping over during the power checks confirms that they know what to do.
And to the orginal poster don't let the "experence" get the better of you. I have seen 1000 hour plus instructors scare themselves pooless doing a bit of adhock photography when they got too focused on the photography.
After partners have done the safety pilot course which I might add is a bit weird for the instructor because you teach it in the LHS they are encouraged to fly the plane and practise while flying with thier partner.
Its no great shakes operating a PA28 from the RHS. Instructors round the world do it day in day out. We don't get given any special training during the FIC in fact mostly FIC's are done in C150's. All you do is give the person in the LHS a brief on the ground when they get in, about what you want them to do and let them have a couple of shots with the engine off. The swapping over during the power checks confirms that they know what to do.
And to the orginal poster don't let the "experence" get the better of you. I have seen 1000 hour plus instructors scare themselves pooless doing a bit of adhock photography when they got too focused on the photography.
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Its perfectly legal for the photographer to fly the machine never mind operate the fuel tank selector.
A person shall not act as a flight crew member of a
civil aeroplane/helicopter registered in a JAA Member
State unless that person holds a valid licence and
rating complying with the requirements of JAR-FCL
and appropriate to the duties being performed, or an
authorisation as set out in JAR-FCL 1.085/2.085 and/or
1.230/2.230.
civil aeroplane/helicopter registered in a JAA Member
State unless that person holds a valid licence and
rating complying with the requirements of JAR-FCL
and appropriate to the duties being performed, or an
authorisation as set out in JAR-FCL 1.085/2.085 and/or
1.230/2.230.
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Well, in that case, myself and just about every other PPL are constantly breaking the law and invalidating our insurance.
I often let my passengers have a go, and so does everyone I know.
I often let my passengers have a go, and so does everyone I know.
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Well, in that case, myself and just about every other PPL are constantly breaking the law and invalidating our insurance.
I often let my passengers have a go, and so does everyone I know.
I often let my passengers have a go, and so does everyone I know.
It's not difficult to operate *all* controls from the RHS in a PA28 - including fuel selector & mag/starter. I know I never had an issue with it when I instructed on PA28s. As instructors it's done frequently.
Unless the aircraft's flight manual mandates a particular seat for SP operation then there isn't a restriction. Apart from making sure you're competent, of course.
Unless the aircraft's flight manual mandates a particular seat for SP operation then there isn't a restriction. Apart from making sure you're competent, of course.
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Fuel Selector
Here here! Tinstaafl
Fuel selector is not an issue and OFF is gated.
I am tempted to say there is a lot of advice given but really I think we are beginning to go over the top.
It is not a big deal if you are sensible.
Good luck!
Fuel selector is not an issue and OFF is gated.
I am tempted to say there is a lot of advice given but really I think we are beginning to go over the top.
It is not a big deal if you are sensible.
Good luck!
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mad_jock,
It surprises me you say this, as I am sure it's incorrect.
The safety pilot course does not make it legal for 'partners' to fly. It allows them to at least land in some kind of safe manner following incapacitation of their other half/father/brother/daughter/son etc etc. It just means in the worst situation, there is at least a chance of everybody living, as opposed to dying.
If the photographer is not a pilot, how is it legal for them to act as a crew member, i.e. operate anything that affects the way the aeroplane works?
Perhaps a better way I'd like to pose this to you is - where would you draw the line? Letting your passenger operate certain items, such as the fuel selector, the COM and NAV dials etc etc... Or 'having a go', under your very careful supervision... But if we take this all the way, it ends up with them flying the aeroplane completely while you have your eyes shut!
I just feel there is no grey area in the law, i.e. it's not allowed full stop, otherwise there would be people saying, "Hmmm, but I was watching them very carefully!"
Don't get me wrong, everyone I take flying has a go (under my very careful supervision
) but I know it's illegal.
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Cheers.
Its perfectly legal for the photographer to fly the machine never mind operate the fuel tank selector.
The safety pilot course does not make it legal for 'partners' to fly. It allows them to at least land in some kind of safe manner following incapacitation of their other half/father/brother/daughter/son etc etc. It just means in the worst situation, there is at least a chance of everybody living, as opposed to dying.
If the photographer is not a pilot, how is it legal for them to act as a crew member, i.e. operate anything that affects the way the aeroplane works?
Perhaps a better way I'd like to pose this to you is - where would you draw the line? Letting your passenger operate certain items, such as the fuel selector, the COM and NAV dials etc etc... Or 'having a go', under your very careful supervision... But if we take this all the way, it ends up with them flying the aeroplane completely while you have your eyes shut!
I just feel there is no grey area in the law, i.e. it's not allowed full stop, otherwise there would be people saying, "Hmmm, but I was watching them very carefully!"
Don't get me wrong, everyone I take flying has a go (under my very careful supervision
) but I know it's illegal.Interested to hear your thoughts.
Cheers.
To summarise:
There is nothing in UK law to prevent an aircraft being flown from the right seat, provided that all necessary controls can be reached, unless there is a specific prohibition in the POH/Flight Manual.
The PA28 can be flown perfectly safely from the right seat and all controls can be easily reached (including the fuel selector). I have, on more than one occasion, flown a PA28 solo from the right seat with no difficulty.
There is nothing in UK law to prevent a passenger handling the controls of an aircraft on a private flight. The reference to JAR-FCL 1.010 quoted by Ryan5252, apart from not being UK law, is irrelevant as simply handling the controls does not automatically make one a 'flight crew member'.
The only considerations are the insurance requirements and the advisability of familiarisation training in the right seat.
There is nothing in UK law to prevent an aircraft being flown from the right seat, provided that all necessary controls can be reached, unless there is a specific prohibition in the POH/Flight Manual.
The PA28 can be flown perfectly safely from the right seat and all controls can be easily reached (including the fuel selector). I have, on more than one occasion, flown a PA28 solo from the right seat with no difficulty.
There is nothing in UK law to prevent a passenger handling the controls of an aircraft on a private flight. The reference to JAR-FCL 1.010 quoted by Ryan5252, apart from not being UK law, is irrelevant as simply handling the controls does not automatically make one a 'flight crew member'.
The only considerations are the insurance requirements and the advisability of familiarisation training in the right seat.
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The reference to JAR-FCL 1.010 quoted by Ryan5252, apart from not being UK law,
is irrelevant as simply handling the controls does not automatically make one a 'flight crew member'.
The only considerations are the insurance requirements
Not wishing to be pedantic but why isn't this UK law considering this extract from JAR-FCL is quoted in Lassors?
by operating the controls one is acting as a flight crew member
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BillieBob,
Interesting.
So it would be legal for my passenger to land the aeroplane?
They cannot fly, nor hold a licence to. I am not an instructor.
But they could land, legally?
Cheers.
Interesting.
So it would be legal for my passenger to land the aeroplane?
They cannot fly, nor hold a licence to. I am not an instructor.
But they could land, legally?
Cheers.
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I would go with that as well.
There is nothing wrong with someone using the radio either without a license under the supervision of a license holder.
But if anything does go wrong you would be hard pushed to justify yourself.
There is nothing wrong with someone using the radio either without a license under the supervision of a license holder.
But if anything does go wrong you would be hard pushed to justify yourself.