Whats Involved in a Complex Rating

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Hi Chaps.

Just wondering whats involved in a 'Complex' rating, if there is such a thing?(CSU and wheels that go up)
There is a C185 that i wouldn't mind converting too.

Is it just the same as a new type rating with a bit more POH study?

I'm shopping for ratings at the moment :-) keeps it fun.

cheers.

[SNS3Guppy]

Where are you doing your training? Your information gives that you're in New Zealand. Are you looking for information on New Zealand, or elsewhere? The definitions for complex and high performance vary from country to country.

A cessna 185 is a great airplane, though the wheels don't come up, as I'm sure you're aware.

[Fuji Abound]

It's complex

[Ph1l]

Its easy, Ive just done mine. Just need a few hours with an instructor that can sign you off on complex. I did my differences training with an instructor that could also sign me off for tailwheel and complex, all in one go.

[Morrisman1]

although some countries would call it a 'complex' CAA NZ dont really give a crap. You should know how type ratings work, all you need is a type rating on that aircraft so basically the same as any other single engine piston type rating.

Your first multi engine type rating is a more intense rating (5 hours min) and it covers single engine handling and procedures.

In NZ there is no such thing as a 'complex' rating

also does this c185 have retractable? That would be odd as all the c185 ive seen are tail wheel!! Are you sure its not a 182rg?

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Sorry!! Correction! its an r182. ZK-EKL to be exact.

I wasn't sure how the ratings worked for the more advanced A/C i thought it may have just be a type rating on an A/C that had the 'complexity', just asking the question.

I was really afterwhat was involved. As in some therory work to do with the blue handle? manifold pressure is all new to me!! I would certianly expect you'd need to read the POH inside and out regarding the gear.

I'm a Newbie, I've barely broken 100 hours and PA28's are as advanced as it gets for me!

[FlyingKiwi_73]

BTW i am in Wellington, but i trained got my PPL at Omaka with the MAC.

I live on the coast so NZPP is the closest airfeild for me.

[JTN]

Go for it. Just done mine (though not in NZ).

It's differences training rather than a type rating - you will still have a class rating - SEP. The basics of the training is handling; the extra lever for gear and (if transitioning from fixed pitch) the extra plunger for propellor control. Also cowl-flaps - I went from C172 to C172RG. One other "complexity" is (again if transitioning from fixed pitch) is that the throttle doesn't control the RPM any more - confused me first time out!

Main thing for me was I felt like I had gone back to my early pre-solo days in the circuit. Everything went so much faster (20kt faster in cruise, coupled with the extra levers / plungers to push and pull); complete overload first time out, not enough time to fit everything in, getting better with each circuit.

Don't know your aircraft, but you may find there is a second bit to the training. For example if it has GPS / coupled autopilot there will likely be some groundschool learning how the systems work. Otherwise, the groundschool is really about where all the new levers and dial are - reading the POH to get speeds in advance is a really good start point.

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Cheers i thought it was a bit more than the handling flight and a few new items on the downwind checks.

I'm really interested to learn about blue handle flying which is why i thought i may upgrade my rating quest (having bitten the bullet and decided to convert to high wings). I'm guessing it not as simple as Full Fine for take off and landing then?

Any complexity around the gear? like new speeds, new approach ?

[Morrisman1]

It's differences training rather than a type rating - you will still have a class rating - SEP

that is not correct here, every aircraft requires a type rating in NZ. It needs to be ticked off by an instructor and for a c182 it would require a minimum flight time of 30 minutes.

As for the differences between a more basic aircraft you should know things like what type of injection system the engine has, what hydraulic system, all the V speeds for the gear and how to lower them in an event of hydraulic failure, any 'do nots' for the gear. What will happen to the prop in event of CSU spring failure or hydraulic failure and how to operate it/what RPM to use etc. Other than that your type rating will be much the same as any other single engine piston plane

[MrAverage]

JTN

"It's differences training rather than a type rating - you will still have a class rating - SEP".

You may want to be a little careful what you write as you might lead some astray. The rules are quite different in New Zealand. PPLs have to do a Type Rating and then further Type Ratings before they fly another type. For example I believe separate Type Ratings are required for PA28 and C172. I don't think they have an SEP Class rating as we do. Your advice on the reality of the training is fine but do remember there are several other items that require further complex training in the UK even if you've had wobbly prop and disappearing wheels signed off. LASORS 2010 has revised the actual requirements.

[MrAverage]

Sorry Morrisman1, I was composing and posting just behind you!

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Hi Morrisman, would the flight really only be 30 mins? I'm guessing it takes as long as it takes for the instructor to be happy with your competancy?

My rating flights in the PA28 was about 3 hours all up.

FK

[flyinkiwi]

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi_73

Cheers i thought it was a bit more than the handling flight and a few new items on the downwind checks.

It comes down to you knowing the systems and being able to manage the aircraft to the satisfaction of the appropriately rated instructor, just like any type rating. How long this takes is up to how much effort you put into learning the systems and how well you fly it.

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi_73

I'm really interested to learn about blue handle flying which is why i thought i may upgrade my rating quest (having bitten the bullet and decided to convert to high wings). I'm guessing it not as simple as Full Fine for take off and landing then?

Your instructor will tell you more about it but the PoH will have the recommended RPM and Manifold Pressure settings for takeoff, climb, cruise and descent. You will need to commit them to memory.

Originally Posted by FlyingKiwi_73

Any complexity around the gear? like new speeds, new approach ?

You need to know how the gear works in terms of it's attendant system (hydraulic or electric), what the failover settings are (most gear will fail into the down and locked position but some do not). What the inflight gear failure procedures are or where the checklist is, the best method of inspecting the gear during your walkaround and what to look for in terms of problems. And yes there is the gear down and gear up limiting speeds which must be memorized in addition to learning how the aircraft performs in the glide in both configurations, and the implications of that when it comes to a forced landing.

And that's only what I can remember off the top of my head. I have most likely forgotten a few other things that are just as important.

[Morrisman1]

Hi Morrisman, would the flight really only be 30 mins? I'm guessing it takes as long as it takes for the instructor to be happy with your competancy?

My rating flights in the PA28 was about 3 hours all up.

that is the legal minimum, of course its probably longer, I would imagine it would be long enough to go out do stalls, slow flight, steep turns then back for 5 circuits. That should really be the absolute minimum but the law says 30 minutes flight time as the minimum.

Expect a couple hours. The better prepared you are in terms of flight experience and knowledge of the aircraft systems before the flight the quicker you will do it in.

Remember you require 5 hours on type before you can operate it on a part 135 air operation and 10 hours for a twin.