Touch And Goes with no flaps
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
Likes: 10
From: Ansião (PT)
What are the flaps there for, if not to be used during landing (and preceeding phases like approach and final)?
Landing is the very RAISON D'ETRE for flaps, and a beginner pilot should first learn to land in the normal way. Normal = according to NORM = POH, which will say a certain degree of flaps for most planes in most circumstances.
Further on in training you can and should practice exceptions - both to prepare for the day your flaps fail on you, and to make you a better pilot generally.
BTW the craft I was flying today ( http://www.skylaneulm.com/index.asp?lg=3 ) would require at least 1500 metres of runway to land without flaps, at least in my beginner's hands. I pray I'll have enough fuel left to reach the closest main airport, the day the electrical flimsiness fails on me.
BTW a training organisation where instructors don't speak from one mouth is suspect. A training organisation where you are bullied by an outsider to your training is a no-no.
Landing is the very RAISON D'ETRE for flaps, and a beginner pilot should first learn to land in the normal way. Normal = according to NORM = POH, which will say a certain degree of flaps for most planes in most circumstances.
Further on in training you can and should practice exceptions - both to prepare for the day your flaps fail on you, and to make you a better pilot generally.
BTW the craft I was flying today ( http://www.skylaneulm.com/index.asp?lg=3 ) would require at least 1500 metres of runway to land without flaps, at least in my beginner's hands. I pray I'll have enough fuel left to reach the closest main airport, the day the electrical flimsiness fails on me.
BTW a training organisation where instructors don't speak from one mouth is suspect. A training organisation where you are bullied by an outsider to your training is a no-no.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 2
From: USA
It was also prohibited to use full flap because they kept getting stuck down. Which is a real problem if landing away somewhere where there isn't an onsite maintenance facility as you can imagine!
When the rental agency tells you not to lower the flaps in case they get stuck, it's a good time to rent some place else.
"Doctor, it hurts when I do this." "Then don't do that."
Not really a workable solution to a mechanical problem, in an airplane. Flaps are supposed to be able to go all the way down, and come all the way back up again, on a regular basis.
I once flew with a gentleman while checking him out in a company Cessn a210, who insisted he wanted to leave the landing gear down. His theory was that if we never raised the gear, it could never fail to come back down. While I can't faul this logic, I insisted that he raised and lowered it for every trip around the pattern. Imagine an instructor ingraining a bad habit like not reaching for the gear handle every time!
Let's face it, bald logic suggests that if we never move the airplane, it will never break (it's not true, of course), so flaps that never go all the way down can't get stuck, gear that never comes up won't refuse to come back down, and engines that never get started will last forever, right? Wrong, all three counts (yes, gear that doesn't get retracted can still fail, but that's another discussion for another time).
If you find someone is telling you not to do something in the airplane because something keeps failing, sticking, burning, frying, or unusual procedures or maintenance are used to correct a normal action, then it's really time to go fly something else.
Joined: Sep 2009
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 948
Likes: 63
From: N.YORKSHIRE
BTW the craft I was flying today ( http://www.skylaneulm.com/index.asp?lg=3 ) would require at least 1500 metres of runway to land without flaps, at least in my beginner's hands. I pray I'll have enough fuel left to reach the closest main airport, the day the electrical flimsiness fails on .
I'm assuming that's a typo and you mean feet, not metres?
I'm assuming that's a typo and you mean feet, not metres?
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
Likes: 10
From: Ansião (PT)
It was not a typo but there was a slight bit of poetic exaggeration. Still, in the flare this bird floats and floats and keeps on floating even with the flaps in the second of three extensions. Setting full flaps is not recommended because the bird is hard to take off / go around with so much flaps , it really is a big difference from the second to the third (fully extended) position. Then again; don't forget I am really a beginner pilot, and a slow learner.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,218
Likes: 2
From: USA
Still, in the flare this bird floats and floats and keeps on floating even with the flaps in the second of three extensions.
