Poke holes in my plan

[ah147]

Looking to start PPL training very soon (in the next month or two) with a view to transporting family around the UK and eventually, once my hours are up, to the Channel Islands. Already had a trial flight but only one of those experience it days.

Now I've been and looked at US, France, Spain and UK as training areas and spoke to everyone possible about how to initially get into flying, including six professional pilots at a bar in Alderney last night, that was an interesting "discussion" to be involved in.

So far the short term plan is,
To buy the ground exam books asap and start reading up on them.
Get myself to my local private airport and start getting in the air in a 152
After about four/five hours airtime get my medical and ground exams done.
Carry on through to however many hours I take to get PPL.
A few hours conversion to PA-28
Once its a bit closer to winter again (which it probably will be at this point) look at doing a night rating.

Feel more than welcome to ignore me or poke holes in my plan. Any criticism by people who have been there and done it, is the best advice to listen to.

Thanks

Ash

[jxc]

Plan seems good to me except maybe get your medical done sooner than later just incase if you are in good health it may be worth your while getting a class 1 medical more expensive to start but I believe if u let it lapse it reverts back to class 2 for 5 years cheaper in long run


Good luck

[FlyingKiwi_73]

Looks good so far mate!

be prepared for your medical to take longer than expected, and you may want some club advice when filling out the form. I wish i did!

As far as the Exams do your FRTO (radio exam) first thats the one you need for solo. (unless its different in the UK) - possibly want to do Met last that can be pretty complex, not hard but a lot to learn.
Strech your brain on the others first!

Don't sweat the PPL hours, it takes as long as it takes for you to feel safe, if you are not doing it full time you may find you go backwards once or twice,. perserverance is the key. There will be days when you never want to see another aircraft again,... or breifing room,.

Good Luck, remember "this is fun"

[Neptunus Rex]

Good plan and good advice. Just one thing to add. When it comes to your navigation training, find a retired RAF QFI. He will teach you the best Nav techniques, with Mental Dead Reckoning, using GPS only as a back-up. Nav is easy, as long as you prepare thoroughly, believe in the techniques and fly accurately. That will keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

Then just enjoy it!

[kevmusic]

When it comes to your navigation training, find a retired RAF QFI. He will teach you the best Nav techniques, with Mental Dead Reckoning, using GPS only as a back-up. Nav is easy, as long as you prepare thoroughly, believe in the techniques and fly accurately. That will keep you out of all sorts of trouble.

Not on PPRuNe it won't!!

[Alan_D]

As far as the Exams do your FRTO (radio exam) first thats the one you need for solo. (unless its different in the UK)

In the UK only the 'Air Law' exam is required by most clubs before going solo.

[ah147]

That RAF QFI comment is interesting. I don't know what a QFI is in all honesty. But I'm good friends with an ex tornado and sea king pilot

[bingofuel]

And if you cannot find a retired RAF QFI then just find a good civilian instructor who will teach you a method of navigation that works for you. All methods have their merits but some people find one method easier than another, but essentially what you aim to do is, fly the required heading for the required time, and you will be fine with any navigation method.

[Lister Noble]

I'd ask them then.
In fact they could probably answer all your questions.
Good luck

[jxc]

But don't be afraid of the DARK (gps) side LUKE

[Whirlygig]

If you have no intention of getting a commercial licence, then there is no point in a day trip to Gatwick and a few hundred quid just for a Class 1 medical - stick to the Class 2 but I would recommend you do that soonest just in case .... you may then need to consider the NPPL route.

Cheers

Whirls

[Neptunus Rex]

OK, I'll rephrase it. Find an experienced Flying Instructor that can teach and demonstrate proper navigation techniques, without relying on GPS. GPS can fail, but a well-prepared map and flight plan will see you through.

Some years ago I was a passenger in a loose formation flying from home plate to a foreign airfield just 90 miles away. The gaggle was led by the Chief Flying Instructor who, unknown to the rest of us, was using his brand new GPS on a flight that had only one turning point. He missed it, and six aircraft were about to enter controlled airspace, until Air Traffic pointed out the error and gave a corrected heading. There was no map, no flight plan and no nominated deputy lead to take over in case of trouble. Rank amateurs.

Stick to basics and consider GPS to be "Looxury, pure looxury."

[Gertrude the Wombat]

with a view to transporting family around the UK

This is where the holes start appearing in the plan, on account of you will usually not get to go where you want when you want because of weather, aircraft unavailability, catching a cold, or something else.

Any trip you plan to make in a PA-28 you'd better have a ground transport organised as a Plan B, and that's what you'll be doing at least two times out of three (and more often than that in winter).

Plus if you don't own the PA-28, but are wanting to rent it, check out the Ts&Cs. A club might want you to pay for a minimum three hours' flying for each day you've got the aircraft away from base ... and that's if they let you take it away overnight at all in the first place.

Then there's how heavy are your family? Will they fit in a PA-28 along with luggage and enough fuel to get anywhere and be within W&B limits?

[BackPacker]

Your plan looks good, except for this:

with a view to transporting family around the UK and eventually, once my hours are up, to the Channel Islands.

Once you've got your PPL you are entitled to fly in 'VFR conditions'. You'll learn soon enough what the exact definition of this is, but 'good weather' is close enough for now.

In this part of Europe we are on a railroad that transports low-pressure systems over the Atlantic (where they pick up a lot of moisture) to us (where they dump the moisture). This leads to a lot of 'not good weather' days.

If you're looking to use an aircraft as a reliable form of personal/family transport, with a very high probability of the flight actually happening as planned, you'd better stick to driving, or getting on commercial air transport.

We generally talk about 'dispatch rate', which is the chance that flight will actually go-ahead and reach its destination roughly on the planned time. Where we assume the plan was made something like five days in advance - too long for a really accurate weather forecast. Rough numbers for dispatch rates are:
50-70% for a VFR pilot in a basic single engine piston aircraft
80-90% for an IR-rated private pilot in a basic single or dual engine piston aircraft
95-99% for an IR-rated private pilot in an advanced (usually turbine or twin) aircraft that's capable of Flight Into Known Icing (FIKI)

Of course the exact numbers are hard to come by and these are estimates only. And they depend on the season anyway. But it shows that with a basic VFR PPL you really don't have a reliable means of transport. You need to add, at the very least, an instrument rating (which is again roughly the same effort and cost as the initial PPL), and you need access to a pretty advanced (and complex, and costly) aircraft to gain dispatch numbers that approach those from your average family car, or commercial air transport.

Most of the basic VFR PPLs fly for fun, and not to a schedule. That doesn't mean they don't do long-distance touring, but it does mean that whatever flying they do, they're flexible to cancel the flight, or cut it short, or divert to somewhere else, if the weather doesn't work out as planned.

If your family accepts that, that's OK. But if your family starts treating this as another method of transport to get to Grandma, and counts on it just like on a car, think again.

[jxc]

Evening Whirls dont think we have actually ever said hi Hi

class 1 med cost about 350
class 2 med about 130/150

class 1 depending how much your day out is it should be cheaper in the long run
I believe the OP is 19 in 4 years he may decide he wants to go commercial at least now he would find out if he could at least get a class 1 and it is easier to regain

Cheers

[ah147]

Well now we're getting into the serious stuff beyond the PPL training.

My dad moved to Alderney just over 6 months ago. He wants people to visit him more often and commercial flights are hugely expensive and inconvenient due to our location. In about 2 years a large amount of money should be coming in thanks to a large family deal thats in finalisation stages at the moment.

So a year to get my PPL. All winter I'll get very few hours in and definately not to Alderney for reasons I shall say in a minute. Then 6 months in the summer to get hours up flying around UK seeing friends I have not seen for a while (military connections and friends up and down the country).

By winter 2012 the money should have arrived, so the winter shall be spent on an IR course, which is required to land in bad weather in Alderney due to class A airspace (as I was told by several airline pilots last night). Also by this time with a few hours and a bit of experience we should be able to choose a family plane suited to the job perfectly.

As to PA-28 for suitability, we've flown over with a friend in a PA-28 with 3 of us going with him before and another aquaintence has flown us to see him in a PA-36 with 3 adults, 2 kids, 2 dogs and a parrot. That was an interesting flight.

Hope that explains some of how my, and the familys, head is working.

[jxc]

I'm sure you missed the partridge in a pear tree on that list

[BackPacker]

IR course, which is required to land in bad weather in Alderney due to class A airspace

You need the IR to fly (and land) in bad weather and to fly in "class A airspace". And indeed, the airspace around Alderney is class A. But this is one of those bits of class A airspace where you can get a "Special VFR" clearance, so that you can fly to there under VFR rules.

So you can easily get there with just a basic VFR PPL. And you don't need heaps of experience either. Although it helps to make the first flight with a pilot who's been there before to get used to the procedures, bureaucratic things (e.g. flight plans, customs, PPR) and so forth.

[Slopey]

Originally Posted by jxc

class 1 med cost about 350
class 2 med about 130/150

But if they kept it current, a class 1 has to be renewed every 12 months, where as a class 2 will be valid for 60 months at his age. So over the period, Class 1 = £1750, Class 2 = £150.

Even if you let it lapse, it's still £350 for something you can do for £150.

No brainer.

If you get the IR, you'd be better with a decent piece of kit to actually use it, not least to get the family on-board with luggage and enough fuel to get anywhere useful. As long as you can rent one with the appropriate spec.

If you're just rolling around the UK, with the odd trip to Alderney SVFR, you could manage fine with the IMC rather than the full IR.

[jxc]

Ah yes forgot the bit about 5 year class2 at his age
I meant if you do not renew class 1 it then reverts back too class 2 for 5 years