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Transponder requirements

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Transponder requirements

Old 16th Feb 2011, 23:07
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Transponder requirements

Hi,

I'm sure its been asked elsewhere, and I did find a CAA leaflet about it, but can someone confirm, what airspace is a 3 axis microlight permitted to fly in, if it has a radio fitted, but no transponder?

When is it permissible by default? When does ATC approval need to be sought? When is it not permitted?

Just interested. I am learning to fly a 3axis, and the airfield I am flying from is sandwiched right between the London TMA, Luton, Stansted and Heathrow!

Thanks a load. IPZ
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Old 16th Feb 2011, 23:23
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I was always taught a microlight is disallowed to enter any controlled airspace, whether radio or transponder or dishwasher or whatever installed and/or operative. Of course the UK will have its own rules.
In practice it appears one CAN request entering controlled airspace, and depending on equipment, controller's mood and probably other factors it MAY be granted. Radio and class C transponder seem the minimal requirement to entertain any hopes.

A curious exception is in the Belgian AIP for Ostend EBOS:

5.3 ULM FLIGHTS

ULM flights will only be accepted within Oostende CTR if the traffic situation permits.
Take-off and landing is only allowed for ULM aircraft complying with the following:
  • three-axis ULM
  • Equipped with transponder
  • Equipped with radio able to communicate on VHF
  • Able to maintain an airspeed of 80 KIAS MNM
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 00:33
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Have a read of Sch.5 of the ANO.
Required in Class A,B,C; above FL100 and where notified.

Microlights aren't treated differently from any other aeroplanes in this respect.

I'm not current with UK airspace with regard to TMZs
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 05:43
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“I'm not current with UK airspace with regard to TMZs”

No requirement for a transponder in a TMZ, you just need a clearance or operate on a letter of agreement.

Rod1
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 11:46
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Cool, thanks guys.

So as long as I stay below class A airspace around london, and out of the london TMA (also claass A) then theoretically its possible to request permission to do things like transit luton airspace (ClassD) without any transponder?

Any idea whether they ever permit stuff like that?
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Old 17th Feb 2011, 17:28
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VFR transits of Class D will be given subject to 'traffic conditions and controller workload'.

I've had VFR through Luton several times (Stansted is another matter).

Having a transponder will improve yor chances, but if your position reports are accurate, your RT clear, concise and professional, then the controller is more likely to have confidence that you won't be a problem and clear you accordingly.

Best to have a plan A that assumes you won't get a clearance.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 11:10
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Hm 'no requirement for a transponder in a TMZ'. Something not quite logical there.
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:41
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TMZ, or TMA (as in LTMA)?
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:50
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TMZs are Transponder Mandatory Zones, you can't fly there without a transponder.

Class A airspace, you can't fly in either.

Class D airspace, you can fly in so long as you have permission, which is normally achieved through 2-way RT.

MATZ, you can fly in without contact or permission, but it is wisest to treat it as if it was class D, and certainly if you don't during a test, you'll fail it.

G
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 17:54
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G, thanks for that. I've got a long way to go yet (and have to get an RT license outside of the Microlight training), but its good to know that I'm not as restricted as I could be.

Ta, IPZ
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 18:20
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You'll find that, so long as you are confident and correct with your RT, and do a little bit of sensible prior planning, you can fly just about anywhere with a microlight.

G
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 18:45
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Thanks for that G. Now all I have to do is find somewhere to learn RT. There are some adverts in the back of Pilot magazine for a guy that does all the training in a day or two, but I have no idea what its like.

I'm hoping that the microlight instructor arranges something with a local flying school, which I believe he has done in the past.

I am SO looking forward to learning more, and getting my PPL(M)!
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 19:19
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Somebody told me the other day that there are regular RT classes at North Weald, you could try giving them a call.

G
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 19:42
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That's brilliant. Thanks. Will do. IPZ
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 20:06
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Re. TMZs, according to a man from NATS who addressed a meeting I was at recently, since the TMZ around Luton/Stansted was introduced, of all the requests for transits without a transponder that have been made, only two have been denied - and both of those were denied due to misunderstandings that were later cleared up.

That's what he said. I have no personal experience of it, I don't fly in that area and my aircraft all have a transponder.

FFF
------------
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 20:08
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FFF. I knew there was a TMZ that had gone up around stansted, but not luton. When did that happen?
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 21:20
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It probably didn't, I'm refering to the Stansted one. My mistake. I did say that I don't fly in that area!

FFF
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Old 18th Feb 2011, 21:30
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:-) FFF, Thanks. To be honest, given the weather recently, I'm not flying in that area either, or anywhere else! Fingers crossed for my next lesson, this Sunday.
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 09:37
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IanPZ - You might like to read this if you haven't done so already.

http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/aip/cu...9_Y_076_en.pdf

HTH
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Old 19th Feb 2011, 10:33
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Thanks for that. It's all slowly starting to make sense!

So, no flying in class A. Class D is possible with ATC permission, treat MATZ like class D and TMZ should need a transponder, but the stansted one is possible to fly in without a transponder if permission is given, just like class D.

And anything class E and onwards doesn't need a transponder. No class B in the UK, and god knows where there is class C, but its nowhere near where I am!

Is that all correct?

Ta. IPZ
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