Can too much "knowledge" hurt during PPL training?
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Funny you mention that my biggest problem will be looking at the instruments and not out the window. Why is that? I did EXACTLY that when I flew my explorer flight in 2003...I kept looking at the attitude indicator, the altimeter, and the VSI and not out the dang window on a perfectly good, bright sunny day.
Is it simple infatuation with one's first experience with real world instruments after years of just seeing them on a PC monitor?
Is it simple infatuation with one's first experience with real world instruments after years of just seeing them on a PC monitor?
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Lol! Probably. Problem is with a flt sim the visual cues are so bad that you tend to look at the instruments to see whether you are straight and level or whatever instead of what the 'picture' looks like.
Not that gliders are stuffed with instruments compared to a well equiped GA a/c but I would say I look at the ASI on launch and during the cct to land, that's about the only time my heads in the cockpit. You judge everything else on visual attitude, wind noise and buffet if you're in a tight turn. The vario is electric, it makes various beeping noises depending on whether you're going up or down so you don't have to look at it and the yaw indicator (pretty important in a big wing beast like a glider) is a bit of red string taped to the outside of the canopy..........
Not that gliders are stuffed with instruments compared to a well equiped GA a/c but I would say I look at the ASI on launch and during the cct to land, that's about the only time my heads in the cockpit. You judge everything else on visual attitude, wind noise and buffet if you're in a tight turn. The vario is electric, it makes various beeping noises depending on whether you're going up or down so you don't have to look at it and the yaw indicator (pretty important in a big wing beast like a glider) is a bit of red string taped to the outside of the canopy..........
The reason you do that is because nobody has taught you how to fly an aeroplane, you have self taught, to a degree, instrument flying which is not initial training.
I agree flight sims have a place, and can be useful for basic IF scans, procdures holds etc, but as an aid to basic flight skills, no. A monitor is nothing like a full 3D , 360deg panoramic view and you get no feel or feedback through the controls or airframe.
Best advice, listen to the instructor, and ask questions if not 100% sure of something.
There are no silly questions, but you might get some silly answers from some people so beware.
Enjoy.
I agree flight sims have a place, and can be useful for basic IF scans, procdures holds etc, but as an aid to basic flight skills, no. A monitor is nothing like a full 3D , 360deg panoramic view and you get no feel or feedback through the controls or airframe.
Best advice, listen to the instructor, and ask questions if not 100% sure of something.
There are no silly questions, but you might get some silly answers from some people so beware.
Enjoy.
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I have thought about playing dumb...keeping my knowledge to myself and letting the instructor think he's telling me everything for the first time, perhaps this is the best "angle of attack", pun intended.
Enjoy!
But then, if he/she starts to assume that the student knows things, then you might miss out on some valuable information.
You are starting from scratch, make sure that you not only study everything, but that your instructor covers the lot.
You are starting from scratch, make sure that you not only study everything, but that your instructor covers the lot.
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You are starting from scratch, make sure that you not only study everything, but that your instructor covers the lot.
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That's a big flashing light warning of a bad school in my opinion.
When I was learning, without fail my instructor would know what we had done on the previous lesson and what we were doing next, and there would always be a briefing before the flight.
When I was learning, without fail my instructor would know what we had done on the previous lesson and what we were doing next, and there would always be a briefing before the flight.
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We certainly didn't have a breifing every lession, certainly at the start of every section of the syllabus. But maybe they thought the airwork stuff was more important, I had a bit of gliding experience (solo, but not my first bronze). If there was anything i needed to talk about we went into a room, but maybe my theory is a bit lacking because of this....
I did all of the exams self study, had the odd ground school and pizza night, never got below 85%. maybe because i did it nearly full time (while running a business) and was always hanging around it was a bit less formal?
Did my PPL in 62 hours, thats only 7 off the minimum here..... damn.. now you've got me thinking....
I did all of the exams self study, had the odd ground school and pizza night, never got below 85%. maybe because i did it nearly full time (while running a business) and was always hanging around it was a bit less formal?
Did my PPL in 62 hours, thats only 7 off the minimum here..... damn.. now you've got me thinking....
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A lot of good replies to this one, thanks guys. I just need to go in KNOWING that whatever I think I know is, until properly taught to me by a CFI, not "official" knowledge.
On another note, and not wanting to start a new thread at this point, after attaining a PPL, how many hours so most private pilots fly per month assuming they do not own their own aircraft?
On another note, and not wanting to start a new thread at this point, after attaining a PPL, how many hours so most private pilots fly per month assuming they do not own their own aircraft?
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That is exactly what I have been surmising...50 hours / year. That would cost me nominally $5,000 US if I rent one of KOQN's 152's. I'd really like to fly 100+ hours per year but at some point it just gets to expensive. It's not that I can't afford it but rather I'll have a hard time justifying spending the money on air time as opposed to say putting away for my (future) kid's college...
Too much knowledge in it self is never bad, indeed one can argue that you can never have too much knowledge. The issue with a new student is what bit of knowledge is important at any particular time. Not being able to differentiate between vital-very important -somewhat important - nice to know - and irrelevant is where you will face challenges in your training and why you need to pay attention to what the instructor is focused on and not what you want to talk about.
I will caveat this with one comment. At the beginning of flying training there is a ton of stuff thrown at you and so to focus on the vital and avoid overload you will initially be told to do things with only minimal explanation. It is important that the instructor revisit these areas later in training. The bottom line is by the end of the training you should not be doing anything simply because "that is what the instructor told you" Instead you should have an understanding of both "what" to do as well as "why" you are doing something.
Looking back I was the instructors nightmare. I was mad about flying ever since I was 6 years old. For my 15 Birthday my parents bought me a ground school kit and for my 16 th Birthday my parents bought me flying lessons. By that time I had pretty much memorized everything in the ground school kit including the POH. On the first lesson the instructor said "this is a Cessna 150 and here are it's major components starting with the propeller". I then said "yes I know it is a Mcaulley and listed off the model number and its diameter and pitch". I don't remember the expression on the instructors face, but I can imagine
.
I will caveat this with one comment. At the beginning of flying training there is a ton of stuff thrown at you and so to focus on the vital and avoid overload you will initially be told to do things with only minimal explanation. It is important that the instructor revisit these areas later in training. The bottom line is by the end of the training you should not be doing anything simply because "that is what the instructor told you" Instead you should have an understanding of both "what" to do as well as "why" you are doing something.
Looking back I was the instructors nightmare. I was mad about flying ever since I was 6 years old. For my 15 Birthday my parents bought me a ground school kit and for my 16 th Birthday my parents bought me flying lessons. By that time I had pretty much memorized everything in the ground school kit including the POH. On the first lesson the instructor said "this is a Cessna 150 and here are it's major components starting with the propeller". I then said "yes I know it is a Mcaulley and listed off the model number and its diameter and pitch". I don't remember the expression on the instructors face, but I can imagine
.
Last edited by Big Pistons Forever; 18th Feb 2011 at 15:36.
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I had many, many hours of PC simming before I got to do my PPL, right from Bruce Artwick's first Flight Sim, which became the Microsoft one.
My approach was not to mention it, and just to listen and learn. Seemed to work well. Biggest difference to me was how much more sensory feedback you get from a real aircraft. Also wind and turbulence do not seem well modelled in any sim I've used.
I continued to use the sim though my training, practicing my cross-country routes and radio calls. Not useful in flying technique but very useful in getting a feel of what to expect on a flight, especially if you get the photographic VFR scenery.
My approach was not to mention it, and just to listen and learn. Seemed to work well. Biggest difference to me was how much more sensory feedback you get from a real aircraft. Also wind and turbulence do not seem well modelled in any sim I've used.
I continued to use the sim though my training, practicing my cross-country routes and radio calls. Not useful in flying technique but very useful in getting a feel of what to expect on a flight, especially if you get the photographic VFR scenery.
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I would agree that outlining your level of knowledge to a POTENTIAL instructor, is the way to go.
those that dismiss it as irelevant, would remove themselves from my list of wallet-emptiers.
As BPF stated, there should be some dialogue between pupil and instructor.
Having established that Big Pistons had swallowed the prop-spec sheet, I'd hope the instructor would then have questioned his knowledge of the relevance of diameter and pitch (and possibly the pros and cons of wood V metal. I'd get really frustrated with an instructor who expected to parrot the whole spiel at me, without having properly established my depth of knowledge and attempting to expand it...after all, it's MY cash buying HIS time and I want maximum value.
Sims have their place....as do R/C models....A fullsize Heli-pilot reckons that models are far harder ,probably due to their low mass and virtually instantaneous response....and, yes, you can get really good sims for f/w and Rotary models...weather can be programmed-in as can daylight,failures etc.
As with any sim, it's about muscle-memory and reactions.
A good instructor will work with you to take advantage of your present knowledge...a bad one will just teach you the required syllabus to gain a license.
many years ago, my driving-instructor was selected on the basis of his opening pitch:-
" If you want to learn to drive, I may not be the cheapest, but that's what I'll do....If you just want to pass the test, there are many cheaper that will serve.
40+ years and over half a million miles later, it seems I made a good choice
those that dismiss it as irelevant, would remove themselves from my list of wallet-emptiers.
As BPF stated, there should be some dialogue between pupil and instructor.
Having established that Big Pistons had swallowed the prop-spec sheet, I'd hope the instructor would then have questioned his knowledge of the relevance of diameter and pitch (and possibly the pros and cons of wood V metal. I'd get really frustrated with an instructor who expected to parrot the whole spiel at me, without having properly established my depth of knowledge and attempting to expand it...after all, it's MY cash buying HIS time and I want maximum value.
Sims have their place....as do R/C models....A fullsize Heli-pilot reckons that models are far harder ,probably due to their low mass and virtually instantaneous response....and, yes, you can get really good sims for f/w and Rotary models...weather can be programmed-in as can daylight,failures etc.
As with any sim, it's about muscle-memory and reactions.
A good instructor will work with you to take advantage of your present knowledge...a bad one will just teach you the required syllabus to gain a license.
many years ago, my driving-instructor was selected on the basis of his opening pitch:-
" If you want to learn to drive, I may not be the cheapest, but that's what I'll do....If you just want to pass the test, there are many cheaper that will serve.
40+ years and over half a million miles later, it seems I made a good choice
