New FAA designated pilot examiner for Europe
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Interesting axe grinding going on here.
You can perform a limited service in a foreign country in the context of a business. If this was not possible, every person (a representative of some manufacturer or service provider) who visits a customer abroad, and ends up sorting out some issue under e.g. some contractual obligation, or perhaps just to help out the customer, and his time is then billed for, flat rate or hourly, would need a work permit, which is patent bollox otherwise all forms of out-of-warranty (billable) engineering support could not be performed outside the principal's country (ignoring the intra-EU concession which is irrelevant to this anyway).
Let's say Boeing send out half a dozen engineers out of their factory to say the UK, to help out with some issues on some BA 747s. Out of warranty, their time will be billed for. Do they need work permits? Bollox
Also, DPEs do have to sign an FAA contract. They are reps of the FAA.
You can perform a limited service in a foreign country in the context of a business. If this was not possible, every person (a representative of some manufacturer or service provider) who visits a customer abroad, and ends up sorting out some issue under e.g. some contractual obligation, or perhaps just to help out the customer, and his time is then billed for, flat rate or hourly, would need a work permit, which is patent bollox otherwise all forms of out-of-warranty (billable) engineering support could not be performed outside the principal's country (ignoring the intra-EU concession which is irrelevant to this anyway).
Let's say Boeing send out half a dozen engineers out of their factory to say the UK, to help out with some issues on some BA 747s. Out of warranty, their time will be billed for. Do they need work permits? Bollox
Also, DPEs do have to sign an FAA contract. They are reps of the FAA.
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No there is no axe grinding. It is merely an open debate.
IO, you are quite correct an overseas employer may send out a member of staff to attend a meeting or sort an issue in Europe. However that member of staff is on the US payroll. In this cae the DPE is coming and collecting payment direct and not on behalf of the US government or an overseas company with a presence in Europe.
A DPE may sign a contract with the FAA in the same way that a CAA Examiner has a contract as an examiner with the the CAA. This does not make them an employee of the FAA or CAA and therefore not a government representative in the visa sense.
I represent the UK CAA as an Examiner. That would not get me a work visa or the right to work in the USA and the same applies here.
Janeen is an aviation consultant not an FAA employee and as such comes to Europe on a private basis. In order to receive payment directly in Europe she must come here on a working visa not a tourist visa. To get a working visa she must be sponsored. I am just wondering who is doing the sponsoring.
Like I said, no axe to grind as I think serious competition is needed in Europe but this does not over ride the need for a visa.
IO, you are quite correct an overseas employer may send out a member of staff to attend a meeting or sort an issue in Europe. However that member of staff is on the US payroll. In this cae the DPE is coming and collecting payment direct and not on behalf of the US government or an overseas company with a presence in Europe.
A DPE may sign a contract with the FAA in the same way that a CAA Examiner has a contract as an examiner with the the CAA. This does not make them an employee of the FAA or CAA and therefore not a government representative in the visa sense.
I represent the UK CAA as an Examiner. That would not get me a work visa or the right to work in the USA and the same applies here.
Janeen is an aviation consultant not an FAA employee and as such comes to Europe on a private basis. In order to receive payment directly in Europe she must come here on a working visa not a tourist visa. To get a working visa she must be sponsored. I am just wondering who is doing the sponsoring.
Like I said, no axe to grind as I think serious competition is needed in Europe but this does not over ride the need for a visa.
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Still not a government department and not entitled to a visa to take money in Europe. Being a US business and coming to Europe would allow them to come here and solicit business. But not take payment.
Come on IO you are normally so up on rules and regulations.
Come on IO you are normally so up on rules and regulations.
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Come on you chaps:
Do you want a DPE over here who provides a more user friendly service than current DPEs or not?
You risk killing off the whole business by your quest for (I'd say irrelevant) answers.
But then that's PPRuNe all over: Self agrandizement by the few.
Do you want a DPE over here who provides a more user friendly service than current DPEs or not?
You risk killing off the whole business by your quest for (I'd say irrelevant) answers.
But then that's PPRuNe all over: Self agrandizement by the few.
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The UK Border Agency has this to say:
US citizens are not considered "visa nationals".
If someone wanted to get all argumentative, then it could be considered that doing rating revals and that sort of thing means that
but that case is very easily circumvented by the permit-free employment rules.
In practice however, it's as IO describes, there are rules which are written for the general case, and then there are those of us who just go there, get the job done, and bugger off. Often abiding strictly by the rules would be counterproductive for everyone (host government included) so we don't.
I note btw that the above research took three minutes via Google, and I also note that it is considered impolite to post a question without having a shot at Googling the answer first.
You will only need permission (known as 'entry clearance' or 'a visa') to come to the UK for a business visit of up to six months if you are a visa national.
If someone wanted to get all argumentative, then it could be considered that doing rating revals and that sort of thing means that
you intend to take paid employment; or to produce goods or services within the UK, including selling goods or services directly to the public;
In practice however, it's as IO describes, there are rules which are written for the general case, and then there are those of us who just go there, get the job done, and bugger off. Often abiding strictly by the rules would be counterproductive for everyone (host government included) so we don't.
I note btw that the above research took three minutes via Google, and I also note that it is considered impolite to post a question without having a shot at Googling the answer first.
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A DPE may sign a contract with the FAA in the same way that a CAA Examiner has a contract as an examiner with the the CAA. This does not make them an employee of the FAA or CAA and therefore not a government representative in the visa sense.
I represent the UK CAA as an Examiner. That would not get me a work visa or the right to work in the USA and the same applies here.
I represent the UK CAA as an Examiner. That would not get me a work visa or the right to work in the USA and the same applies here.
The FAA uses volunteers in it's safety program (FAAST Team members). These aren't paid either, but are also representatives of the Administrator.
Whether the Designee is eligible for a work visa or not doesn't change the fact that the DPE is still an official representative of the Administrator, and is required to abide all FAA rules, regulations, and policies when acting in that capacity.
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What is permit-free employment?
Permit-free employment means certain types of work for which you do not need permission (or a Certificate of Sponsorship under the points-based system) to undertake. Examples are:
Well done LH2.
What a pointless and irrelevant debate.
unless one has some other agenda...
Permit-free employment means certain types of work for which you do not need permission (or a Certificate of Sponsorship under the points-based system) to undertake. Examples are:
- sole representative of an overseas company in the UK
Well done LH2.What a pointless and irrelevant debate.
it is considered impolite to post a question without having a shot at Googling the answer first.
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SNS3Guppy
We have rarely agreed but the post prior to your last on this thread makes a great deal of sense.
With regards the other remarks on this thread I am greatly saddened by the protectionist attitude of some. It is a great service that this lady is prepared to come to the UK to support US pilots based here.
We have rarely agreed but the post prior to your last on this thread makes a great deal of sense.
With regards the other remarks on this thread I am greatly saddened by the protectionist attitude of some. It is a great service that this lady is prepared to come to the UK to support US pilots based here.
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being a JAA Examiner makes me a representative of the UK government.......
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fraid not - over here you are a civil servant, a peg lower than the tea lady at the Home Office because at least she is directly employed by the government but you would only be responsible to an agency that has been partially privatised and is about to become a far flung satellite office of Brussels.
Al, FE and CRE. Why need an LST or LPC?
Guppy no one said that the DPE was not a representative of the FAA. All examiners by appointment are a representative of the 'the authority' same in JAA land as FAA land. It doe not make them a government employee though, just someone empowered for the purpose of testing.....
Anyway as I said I have no axe to grind, I was just curious. As I said earlier, it is about time those who have had a monopoly and eye watering prices to go with it were given some competition.
Of course the next question is will she face the same problem that the other fixed wing DPE had and was banned from doing tests in the UK without a JAA CPL? Hopefully not.
'banned from doing tests in the UK without a JAA CPL? Hopefully not.'
you forgot to add one of these on the end Bosey-Boy -
might be some finger pointing if she does
Al, FE and CRE. Why need an LST or LPC? yaaawn , yaaawn , yaawn
you forgot to add one of these on the end Bosey-Boy -
might be some finger pointing if she does
Al, FE and CRE. Why need an LST or LPC? yaaawn , yaaawn , yaawn
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With regards the other remarks on this thread I am greatly saddened by the protectionist attitude of some. It is a great service that this lady is prepared to come to the UK to support US pilots based here.
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Slight thread creep here, but it's relevant.
If one's FAA certificate rides on a CAA or JAR licence, will 'we' (UK-based) have to go through the same rigmarole with the FAA again if/when we convert our UK licences to EASA? The cost appears to vary between £42 and north of £450 at the moment, depending on whether it's done in the UK or the US, and I'm not keen on forking out again.
If one's FAA certificate rides on a CAA or JAR licence, will 'we' (UK-based) have to go through the same rigmarole with the FAA again if/when we convert our UK licences to EASA? The cost appears to vary between £42 and north of £450 at the moment, depending on whether it's done in the UK or the US, and I'm not keen on forking out again.
Last edited by FlyingGoat; 17th Jan 2011 at 17:41.
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If one's FAA certificate rides on a CAA or JAR licence, will 'we' (UK-based) have to go through the same rigmarole with the FAA again if/when we convert our UK licences to EASA? The cost appears to vary between £42 and north of £450 at the moment, depending on whether it's done in the UK or the US, and I'm not keen on forking out again.
It's more than just money. It is not beyond the bounds of possibility that the 61.75 issue/mod route may disappear from Europe (it was never possible before about 2009, for example - you always had to go to the USA to get it issued or updated), and while I have no reason to think this will happen it would not shock me if the USA decided to fingerprint 61.75 holders or applicants. Especially if the EASA-FAA FCL treaty process breaks down, which nearly everybody I know who knows anything about it close-up thinks will happen.
When the ICAO English Language Proficiency add-on came in, Europe filled up with headless chickens running around like mad, trying to book an appointment with 1 of the 2 people who could "apparently" do it. I can't believe anybody is contemplating a 61.75 after that fiasco.
