N850TV impounded at BHX
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N850TV impounded at BHX
This TBM850 arrived yesterday afternoon and - according to eyewitnesses - landed over the top of a FlyBE Dash8 which had lined up on 15.
Today, there are snow ploughs parked in front of and behind the TBM - guess the CAA want a word with the pilot...
Today, there are snow ploughs parked in front of and behind the TBM - guess the CAA want a word with the pilot...
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I would be cautious at jumping to conclusions. Was the TBM issued a landing clearance? Was the Dash cleared to line up? Was the TBM instructed to Go around? Why didnt the TBM go around regardless seeing the Dash on the runway?
Why clear the Dash to line up with another aircraft on short finals?
Maybe Dash was ready immediate but then wasnt or problems on departure clearance which delayed an immediate?
Was the Dash cleared to line up after the landing and was a bit too quick on the after bit which appeared as if the TBM had flown over the top?
Why block the aircraft from departing? Usually only done if money owed or a serious fault on the aircraft with a determined to go pilot?
The pilot would be at fault but that would not stop another pilot flying the TBM out?
Seems odd all round would be interesting to know more.
Pace
Why clear the Dash to line up with another aircraft on short finals?
Maybe Dash was ready immediate but then wasnt or problems on departure clearance which delayed an immediate?
Was the Dash cleared to line up after the landing and was a bit too quick on the after bit which appeared as if the TBM had flown over the top?
Why block the aircraft from departing? Usually only done if money owed or a serious fault on the aircraft with a determined to go pilot?
The pilot would be at fault but that would not stop another pilot flying the TBM out?
Seems odd all round would be interesting to know more.
Pace
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Yes, definitely need to know more.
Not many TBM pilots are mugs.
Does the CAA have the power to confiscate an aircraft, ahead of any action against the pilot? I thought this is not possible in the UK (unless pursuing a debt). The French can do it (but the French can do anything).
Not many TBM pilots are mugs.
Does the CAA have the power to confiscate an aircraft, ahead of any action against the pilot? I thought this is not possible in the UK (unless pursuing a debt). The French can do it (but the French can do anything).
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Can't seem to find anything in the news about this and seeing as how it's newsworthy when Ryanair tell you to sit at the back of one of their 737's due W&B you'd expect a story like this to be out there; if the rumour is true.
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I cannot confirm the initial allegation - hence the 'according to' prefix.
I can confirm the snow plough part from my own observations - they were certainly there when I arrived for work at 06:30 and were still there when I left.
The TBM is based in Italy and had planned to depart today, BHX doesn't usually move this quickly for unpaid fees - could a TBM run up a bill for landing/handling/overnight parking that its worth blocking it in within 12-16 hours of arrival?
I can confirm the snow plough part from my own observations - they were certainly there when I arrived for work at 06:30 and were still there when I left.
The TBM is based in Italy and had planned to depart today, BHX doesn't usually move this quickly for unpaid fees - could a TBM run up a bill for landing/handling/overnight parking that its worth blocking it in within 12-16 hours of arrival?
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An old unpaid bill is a possibility.
This sort of thing can also easily happen accidentally, as airport billing / admin practices are occassionally incompetent. I have had several cases of duplicate billing for stuff paid at the time; they climbed down upon getting a proof of the payment (I keep the stuff for a year nowadays) except in one French airport case where I had no proof so just paid them again...
This sort of thing can also easily happen accidentally, as airport billing / admin practices are occassionally incompetent. I have had several cases of duplicate billing for stuff paid at the time; they climbed down upon getting a proof of the payment (I keep the stuff for a year nowadays) except in one French airport case where I had no proof so just paid them again...
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La Rochelle.
However, IME, East Midlands / Bournemouth (accounts done by the same office) mess up more invoices than they get right (largely due to the bizzare Bournemouth Handling setup) and I bet these two have a long list of "drive-aways" who don't actually exist. To be fair, it can be hard to track down some planes and I did explain to one office lady how to use google to track down where people are based so the bill can be sent there...
However, IME, East Midlands / Bournemouth (accounts done by the same office) mess up more invoices than they get right (largely due to the bizzare Bournemouth Handling setup) and I bet these two have a long list of "drive-aways" who don't actually exist. To be fair, it can be hard to track down some planes and I did explain to one office lady how to use google to track down where people are based so the bill can be sent there...
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S78s initial post is completely true 
except they were snow brush tractors impounding the a/c instead of snow ploughs.
After a chat with 'the authorites' the a/c departed yesterday afternoon.
A full investigation will no doubt be under way of which 'PACE's post highlights possible questions.
except they were snow brush tractors impounding the a/c instead of snow ploughs.After a chat with 'the authorites' the a/c departed yesterday afternoon.
A full investigation will no doubt be under way of which 'PACE's post highlights possible questions.
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One point to consider in a landing over?was the Dash lined up on the numbers?
Often an aircraft is cleared to enter and line up after the landing aircraft.
Once at around 50 feet to touchdown the pilots eyes are fixed on the touchdown point, He is bringing the power back to idle or a low setting and preparing to land.
At 50 feet he may not be aware because of the wings obscuring his view of activity from his right or left.
It is quite possible that the Dash
was lining up behind the landing but did so prematurely meaning that the landing aircraft past over him or appeared with slant angles to do so.
I find it alsmost impossible to comprehend that a professional pilot seeing a passeneger aircraft on or near the numbers would fly over the top and land?
Firstly from his own perspective but secondly ATC would have told him in no uncertain terms to Go around probably a number of times.
They would have also told him to expect a late landing clearance if there was a likelyhood of a delay/conflict with a departing aircraft.
As previously stated I will be interested in the findings of this event??? But cannot imagine it will be anything like it appears in the opening posting.
Often an aircraft is cleared to enter and line up after the landing aircraft.
Once at around 50 feet to touchdown the pilots eyes are fixed on the touchdown point, He is bringing the power back to idle or a low setting and preparing to land.
At 50 feet he may not be aware because of the wings obscuring his view of activity from his right or left.
It is quite possible that the Dash
was lining up behind the landing but did so prematurely meaning that the landing aircraft past over him or appeared with slant angles to do so.
I find it alsmost impossible to comprehend that a professional pilot seeing a passeneger aircraft on or near the numbers would fly over the top and land?
Firstly from his own perspective but secondly ATC would have told him in no uncertain terms to Go around probably a number of times.
They would have also told him to expect a late landing clearance if there was a likelyhood of a delay/conflict with a departing aircraft.
As previously stated I will be interested in the findings of this event??? But cannot imagine it will be anything like it appears in the opening posting.
Last edited by Pace; 14th Jan 2011 at 13:52.
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Near miss for FlyBe at BHX 12/01/11
It is being reported by my local news paper the there was an incident involving a Flybe aircraft and a private plane at Birmingham on Wednesday afternoon.
If accurate it sounds as though this was a fortunate outcome for all involved.
If accurate it sounds as though this was a fortunate outcome for all involved.
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This Tocata is registered in Delaware to Wise, Inc. Trustee. A single engine Turboprop operating in Europe is not generally going to be flown by a novice. As any info is yet to be forthcoming, I don't assume the "Blocked in" has to do with any thing. This is an ATC deal. If not controlled, the landing aircraft has ROW...........imo.
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The source, who did not want to be named, claimed the Flybe pilot “had his head between his knees” bracing himself for a crash, adding: “He estimated the planes were inches apart"
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Pace
With respect you make a number of assumptions. Aircraft impounded pending AAIB investigation. As ever we shall leave the investgation to the professionals and await the outcome of the enquiry.
BGG
With respect you make a number of assumptions. Aircraft impounded pending AAIB investigation. As ever we shall leave the investgation to the professionals and await the outcome of the enquiry.
BGG
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The source, who did not want to be named, claimed the Flybe pilot...
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BHX radar (primary) has been patchy at best recently with an ongoing radar upgrade, or unservicability.
There is some possibility this was an aircraft failure of some sort, power, radios etc... the crews might just have been carrying on, expecting the waters to part for them.
Or runway confusion? Coventry isnt that far away....
There is some possibility this was an aircraft failure of some sort, power, radios etc... the crews might just have been carrying on, expecting the waters to part for them.
Or runway confusion? Coventry isnt that far away....