Hi tech flight planning
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Pompey till I die
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Guildford
Hi tech flight planning
Whilst I still plog all routes and calculate each leg on my calculator (and whizz wheel sometimes) I think it's time to move into the 20th century.
I'd really like a system that allowed me to click the points I want on a computer, type in the wind, and then print out a plog all calculated for me. If I could then download that route into a GPS and see it in flight that would be great.
I'd also like to be able to save / load my favourite routes.
So, reading through these pages it seems like navbox is the current software package of choice. Is it possible to download it into a portable GPS ? If so, which GPS do I need to buy to make it so ?
How do I move into the modern, or near modern, age ?
I'd really like a system that allowed me to click the points I want on a computer, type in the wind, and then print out a plog all calculated for me. If I could then download that route into a GPS and see it in flight that would be great.
I'd also like to be able to save / load my favourite routes.
So, reading through these pages it seems like navbox is the current software package of choice. Is it possible to download it into a portable GPS ? If so, which GPS do I need to buy to make it so ?
How do I move into the modern, or near modern, age ?
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 15
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From: yorkshire
Hi Paul,
I'm using SkyDemon and would suggest that you download the trial version (30 days) before parting with cash. If I plan the flight on the PC it gives me all the current weather and notams. I then print the plog which gives me all en-route frequencies etc sync to the SD card and pop that in the portable device. It's as easy as that.
I happen to use my NATS Air Aware hardware and swap SD cards between Sky Demon and Air Aware depending on my needs.
Happy Hunting
I'm using SkyDemon and would suggest that you download the trial version (30 days) before parting with cash. If I plan the flight on the PC it gives me all the current weather and notams. I then print the plog which gives me all en-route frequencies etc sync to the SD card and pop that in the portable device. It's as easy as that.
I happen to use my NATS Air Aware hardware and swap SD cards between Sky Demon and Air Aware depending on my needs.
Happy Hunting
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
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From: Ansião (PT)
The first part I do in an Excel spreadsheet - a first tab-page doing the calculations, finding waypoints in a second. I enter desired waypoints in the first screen, add wind dir/spd, TAS, ETD, and presto there come the compass settings, ground speed, ETE, ETA. What more could you wish?
I have also concocted a procedure to copy the same data into my homebrew GPS, but found it less cumbersome to create the "planned route" manually.
I have also concocted a procedure to copy the same data into my homebrew GPS, but found it less cumbersome to create the "planned route" manually.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
This has been done to death. There are various flight planning programs. The oldest VFR / Europe one is Navbox and the oldest more fancy VFR/IFR one is Jeppesen Flitestar. A more recent VFR prog with some European coverage is Skydemon. Then there are "GPS moving map" programs which have planning capability e.g. PocketFMS.
Simple laptop-based flight planning has been around before I started flying 10-11 years ago. No serious pilot has been using the slide rule etc for that time and I certainly don't.
Personally, what matters to be in a VFR prog is a good database where I can click on an airport and see the phone/fax # etc. I don't think anything beats Navbox on this, dated though it is now. IFR (airways) has different requirements.
Simple laptop-based flight planning has been around before I started flying 10-11 years ago. No serious pilot has been using the slide rule etc for that time and I certainly don't.
Personally, what matters to be in a VFR prog is a good database where I can click on an airport and see the phone/fax # etc. I don't think anything beats Navbox on this, dated though it is now. IFR (airways) has different requirements.
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
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From: Ansião (PT)
IO540, not wanting to disagree, but allow me to insist - as you hinted - that a firm distinction should be made between the program on the one hand and the data it uses on the other. Having no experience with any of the commercial offerings, I can well imagine a great piece of software making a brilliant presentation of crappy data - or highly accurate data presented in a bewildering fashion.
This is one of my reasons for doing it all homebrew - if things go wrong, I'll know whom to blame, and I stand a fair chance of knowing WHY and WHAT went wrong. And it makes a good reminder to check all data against official sources - as we all must, anyhow.
This is one of my reasons for doing it all homebrew - if things go wrong, I'll know whom to blame, and I stand a fair chance of knowing WHY and WHAT went wrong. And it makes a good reminder to check all data against official sources - as we all must, anyhow.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
Hmmmmm.
It is easy to write a flight planning prog which blows everything out there right out of the water.
It is the data which is the problem, or if you like how will you populate the database
Damn nearly everything in Europe is copyright. Some things can be done by a private individual (where copyright is not an issue 
) but if you want something for the great unwashed it has to be legit.
Accuracy is a separate matter. Most of the data comes from the same few databases... the national AIPs are not for the most part machine readable, so people tend to lift stuff from other programs.
I have written lots on this topic previously, however.
It is easy to write a flight planning prog which blows everything out there right out of the water.
It is the data which is the problem, or if you like how will you populate the database
Damn nearly everything in Europe is copyright. Some things can be done by a private individual (where copyright is not an issue ) but if you want something for the great unwashed it has to be legit.Accuracy is a separate matter. Most of the data comes from the same few databases... the national AIPs are not for the most part machine readable, so people tend to lift stuff from other programs.
I have written lots on this topic previously, however.
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 145
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From: Middle England
Skydemon - Fantastic piece of software in my view. Try the 30 day trial as Chinese suggests. I've given up with my clever spreadsheets and use it all the time.
Welcome to SkyDemon, VFR Flight Planning Software and GPS Navigation Devices
Welcome to SkyDemon, VFR Flight Planning Software and GPS Navigation Devices
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 927
Likes: 1
From: Sth Bucks UK
IO540, not wanting to disagree, but allow me to insist - as you hinted - that a firm distinction should be made between the program on the one hand and the data it uses on the other. Having no experience with any of the commercial offerings, I can well imagine a great piece of software making a brilliant presentation of crappy data - or highly accurate data presented in a bewildering fashion.
This is one of my reasons for doing it all homebrew - if things go wrong, I'll know whom to blame, and I stand a fair chance of knowing WHY and WHAT went wrong. And it makes a good reminder to check all data against official sources - as we all must, anyhow.
This is one of my reasons for doing it all homebrew - if things go wrong, I'll know whom to blame, and I stand a fair chance of knowing WHY and WHAT went wrong. And it makes a good reminder to check all data against official sources - as we all must, anyhow.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,170
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From: Abroad
FlightplanPro is the canonical choice for European IFR.
For European and worldwide VFR, the software I choose is Navigation (pronounced /na.vi.ga.sjɔ̃/, i.e., in French). It is almost unheard of in the English-speaking world, although the programme itself is translated. Interestingly, it is the only no-charge alternative I know of that follows the 28-day AIRAC cycle for Europe, so the official data (VFR and IFR) is always current.
HTH
For European and worldwide VFR, the software I choose is Navigation (pronounced /na.vi.ga.sjɔ̃/, i.e., in French). It is almost unheard of in the English-speaking world, although the programme itself is translated. Interestingly, it is the only no-charge alternative I know of that follows the 28-day AIRAC cycle for Europe, so the official data (VFR and IFR) is always current.
HTH
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,807
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From: Ansião (PT)
The OP wants a solution and all you offer him is a problem. If he confesses to having to be dragged into the modern era (and I sympathise with him) what chance has he got of having sufficient knowledge, experience and confidence to write his own spread sheet and then rely on the resultant computations to plan his flight?
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
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From: EuroGA.org
For European and worldwide VFR, the software I choose is Navigation (pronounced /na.vi.ga.sjɔ̃/, i.e., in French). It is almost unheard of in the English-speaking world, although the programme itself is translated. Interestingly, it is the only no-charge alternative I know of that follows the 28-day AIRAC cycle for Europe, so the official data (VFR and IFR) is always current.
Where do they get the data from, and what geographical area is covered?
I think nowadays one can get most if not all of the nav and airspace data for Europe from Eurocontrol, under a B2B contract. But the cost is nontrivial - a few k a year just to get started, AFAIK. Somebody has to pay for this.
Joined: Jul 2005
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From: SoCal
Where do they get the data from, and what geographical area is covered?
Sounds interesting, will need to look at that in more detail.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
From: EuroGA.org
Eurocontrol have been flogging B2B access to their database for some years.
They have also started offering (also via B2B) a route generation facility. It isn't great and often fails totally, and the whole flight is developed and validated at just one flight level, but it's a start. It must have taken a lot of banging heads together at Brussels to open this one up...
What you don't get from anywhere, AFAIK, in a machine readable form, is the useful VFR pilot stuff like working phone/fax numbers for airports, gold plated reliable PPR/PNR information, etc. That is only in the AIPs (notams occassionally) and the only way to populate a flight planning prog database with this stuff is the hard way (swipe/copy/paste). And anyway a lot of this kind of AIP data is garbage, especially in southern Europe, but that is just tough because nobody is going to be calling and verifying phone numbers...
Whether this matters depends on where you fly. For intra-UK flying and perhaps L2K sometimes, you only need a simple VFR prog, and Pooleys.
They have also started offering (also via B2B) a route generation facility. It isn't great and often fails totally, and the whole flight is developed and validated at just one flight level, but it's a start. It must have taken a lot of banging heads together at Brussels to open this one up...
What you don't get from anywhere, AFAIK, in a machine readable form, is the useful VFR pilot stuff like working phone/fax numbers for airports, gold plated reliable PPR/PNR information, etc. That is only in the AIPs (notams occassionally) and the only way to populate a flight planning prog database with this stuff is the hard way (swipe/copy/paste). And anyway a lot of this kind of AIP data is garbage, especially in southern Europe, but that is just tough because nobody is going to be calling and verifying phone numbers...
Whether this matters depends on where you fly. For intra-UK flying and perhaps L2K sometimes, you only need a simple VFR prog, and Pooleys.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,170
Likes: 0
From: Abroad
What you don't get from anywhere, AFAIK, in a machine readable form, is the useful VFR pilot stuff like working phone/fax numbers for airports, gold plated reliable PPR/PNR information, etc. That is only in the AIPs (notams occassionally) and the only way to populate a flight planning prog database with this stuff is the hard way (swipe/copy/paste).
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 137
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From: in front of comptator :-)
I have tried several, navbox, jepperson, skydemon etc.
Looked at several others.
Since trying Skydemon I have had no interest in others. It does what I need. Clik on routes, gets weather, gets Notams etc etc. It is one of the best programs I have ever used.
The only other piece of software I have been so impressed with is CATIA.
Looked at several others.
Since trying Skydemon I have had no interest in others. It does what I need. Clik on routes, gets weather, gets Notams etc etc. It is one of the best programs I have ever used.
The only other piece of software I have been so impressed with is CATIA.