How Quick are your checks?
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How Quick are your checks?
Inspired by the " How Rude" Thread regarding a Pitts pulling out and taking off in front of a training aircraft made me think.
How often have I asked for an intersection departure at places like Cranfield when faced with a gaggle of training aircraft ahead all going through checks at a painfully slow rate?
I was once in Shannon and walked out to a seneca at the same time as two Canadian pilots mounted a Cargo 747.
The cargo 747 had fired up and was well ahead of me on the taxiway for his takeoff even though we both started from cold at the same time.
I fly shotgun in a King Air the owner pilot missed a slot and was sent back for a 1.5 hr delay due to his painfully slow 20 minute check regime as he missed his slot.
On another occasion in Nice I had six minutes to make a takeoff from cold in a citation! We made it.
Some pilots seem to fly around the preflight and taxi checks with their hands darting around the panel like lightning bolts! Others seem to go at one rate "very slow".
How do you deal with your checks? Can you do them from memory with a quick glance down the list to confirm or are you a one speed pilot?
There is an arguement that you dont really know your plane until you can fly without a check list.
Pace
How often have I asked for an intersection departure at places like Cranfield when faced with a gaggle of training aircraft ahead all going through checks at a painfully slow rate?
I was once in Shannon and walked out to a seneca at the same time as two Canadian pilots mounted a Cargo 747.
The cargo 747 had fired up and was well ahead of me on the taxiway for his takeoff even though we both started from cold at the same time.
I fly shotgun in a King Air the owner pilot missed a slot and was sent back for a 1.5 hr delay due to his painfully slow 20 minute check regime as he missed his slot.
On another occasion in Nice I had six minutes to make a takeoff from cold in a citation! We made it.
Some pilots seem to fly around the preflight and taxi checks with their hands darting around the panel like lightning bolts! Others seem to go at one rate "very slow".
How do you deal with your checks? Can you do them from memory with a quick glance down the list to confirm or are you a one speed pilot?
There is an arguement that you dont really know your plane until you can fly without a check list.
Pace
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Being just out of training myself, it's not a problem I've ever had. However, at the airport I fly from (ESSB) there are areas near both ends of the runway (and one at the intersection in the middle) where there is space for 2-4 light aircraft (or, I suppose, one medium) to do their checks and run-up without blocking other traffic from taxiing past.
Since there are multiple schools and clubs operating as well as regular airline traffic and private flights these run-up areas are quite useful. Makes for efficient use of the runway.
With regards to the checks, I go by the checklist but some parts I do from memory, only reading the list afterwards to ensure that I didn't miss anything. "Do-Do-Do-Read" is a lot quicker than "Read-Do-Read-Do-Read-Do".
Since there are multiple schools and clubs operating as well as regular airline traffic and private flights these run-up areas are quite useful. Makes for efficient use of the runway.
With regards to the checks, I go by the checklist but some parts I do from memory, only reading the list afterwards to ensure that I didn't miss anything. "Do-Do-Do-Read" is a lot quicker than "Read-Do-Read-Do-Read-Do".
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Appropriately and not on someone else's dime.
In other words, I vary my attention to the checklist based on what's been going on with me and the airplane lately. If I just flew yesterday, I'm probably a little less detailed than if the airplane's been sitting in a damp hangar for two weeks. I also don't hog up the runway or taxiways doing checks and holding up someone else from using the facilities (same goes for full starting checklist sitting in front of the gas pumps). But I have sharper days and slower days to it's tough to say how long it takes on any particular day.
In other words, I vary my attention to the checklist based on what's been going on with me and the airplane lately. If I just flew yesterday, I'm probably a little less detailed than if the airplane's been sitting in a damp hangar for two weeks. I also don't hog up the runway or taxiways doing checks and holding up someone else from using the facilities (same goes for full starting checklist sitting in front of the gas pumps). But I have sharper days and slower days to it's tough to say how long it takes on any particular day.
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Why are we obsessed in the light piston world with checks at the hold.
Power checks may make sense for various reasons, but full and free? Could you really run into something without knowing during a 100 metre taxi to hold? Others come to mind.
Power checks may make sense for various reasons, but full and free? Could you really run into something without knowing during a 100 metre taxi to hold? Others come to mind.
Moderator
My answer is, "just the right amount" of course! It obviously depends upon what I'm flying. If it's my own plane, which only I fly, things go a little quicker sometimes. If it's a type I've never flown before I will have a thorough read through the flight manual checklist evey flight. For helicopters and turbine types I occasionally fly, full use of the checklist every time....
I once took off with great haste in my plane, to fly a man overboard search over our local lake. Too much haste... when I landed two hours later, I cold hear a tinking sound as I taxied in. It was the aluminum Cessna tow bar bouncing off the ground as I taxied in with it still in place. How happy I was that it was a night search, so no one could see it attached when I flew over!
I recall with amusement, a friend of mine known for very brief preflight checks. The staff at the airport where he kept is light twin, amused themselves by timing him from door closed to wheels off the ground. The plane did usually park within 100 feet of the button of the grass runway, so taxiing was short anyway.
It was reported to me with amusement one day, that he had just broken his own record, in being airborne within 28 seconds of closing the cabin door (with engines not yet running!).
To everything, there is a balance of too little, and too much...
I once took off with great haste in my plane, to fly a man overboard search over our local lake. Too much haste... when I landed two hours later, I cold hear a tinking sound as I taxied in. It was the aluminum Cessna tow bar bouncing off the ground as I taxied in with it still in place. How happy I was that it was a night search, so no one could see it attached when I flew over!
I recall with amusement, a friend of mine known for very brief preflight checks. The staff at the airport where he kept is light twin, amused themselves by timing him from door closed to wheels off the ground. The plane did usually park within 100 feet of the button of the grass runway, so taxiing was short anyway.
It was reported to me with amusement one day, that he had just broken his own record, in being airborne within 28 seconds of closing the cabin door (with engines not yet running!).
To everything, there is a balance of too little, and too much...
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I try to do my checks quickly - but have noticed that when a bit out of practice I can miss items - so I slow down.
Usually I can do my checks without holding anyone else up, but saftey first if I need the time I take it.
It is quite common at my local field for someone to take off from the intersection if they can fit in, I've never seen someone give offence that I know of.
Also it is not uncommon for people to call out "back tracking for departure in turn" and 3 or 4 aircraft can expidite departure by backtracking together. The following aircraft just taxi onto the peri track at the end of the runway. I've seen twin turbo probs fitting in with microlights doing this.
Everyone calls what they are doing.
I use the full runway even in a quite high performance plane capable of using less than a quater of the runway. Its my choice, I don't think people who depart from the intersection are taking an unreasonable risk.
Finally I hope this isn't a thread highjack, it's all meant to be about expaditing departure.
Usually I can do my checks without holding anyone else up, but saftey first if I need the time I take it.
It is quite common at my local field for someone to take off from the intersection if they can fit in, I've never seen someone give offence that I know of.
Also it is not uncommon for people to call out "back tracking for departure in turn" and 3 or 4 aircraft can expidite departure by backtracking together. The following aircraft just taxi onto the peri track at the end of the runway. I've seen twin turbo probs fitting in with microlights doing this.
Everyone calls what they are doing.
I use the full runway even in a quite high performance plane capable of using less than a quater of the runway. Its my choice, I don't think people who depart from the intersection are taking an unreasonable risk.
Finally I hope this isn't a thread highjack, it's all meant to be about expaditing departure.
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I have nothing against thorough checks at the holding point, especially on training flights - you can't learn to do a ground check otherwise than doing it 
Warming up oil at -10°C OAT holding short of the runway instead on the apron (or even better, with preheat) which I witnessed the other day, is entirely different story 
Warming up oil at -10°C OAT holding short of the runway instead on the apron (or even better, with preheat) which I witnessed the other day, is entirely different story
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Depends on which checks
I do a thorough preflight before driving off, extra thorough (and checking for tampering) if the aircraft was left outdoors the night before (which happens very very rarely). This takes about 10 mins.
At the holding point, there are the higher-power (2000rpm) mag checks, etc, but these take only about 1 minute.
It takes me 8-10 mins from start of taxi to getting airborne, with the 8 mins possible if the wx is very warm. But it can't be done in much less time due to needing the oil temp in the green (90F) before doing the 2000rpm checks.
If somebody just starts up (in a piston) and flies straight off with a cold engine, they are IMHO nuts. I see renters do all kinds of stunts (not least because they are getting billed brakes-off to brakes-on) but I would not do it in my own plane.
I do a thorough preflight before driving off, extra thorough (and checking for tampering) if the aircraft was left outdoors the night before (which happens very very rarely). This takes about 10 mins.
At the holding point, there are the higher-power (2000rpm) mag checks, etc, but these take only about 1 minute.
It takes me 8-10 mins from start of taxi to getting airborne, with the 8 mins possible if the wx is very warm. But it can't be done in much less time due to needing the oil temp in the green (90F) before doing the 2000rpm checks.
If somebody just starts up (in a piston) and flies straight off with a cold engine, they are IMHO nuts. I see renters do all kinds of stunts (not least because they are getting billed brakes-off to brakes-on) but I would not do it in my own plane.
How long is a piece of string.
A simple aeroplane that I know well and have good recency in, potentially under a minute, possibly whilst taxiing. I tend not to do things on the ground from memory, because I don't need to, unless it's open cockpit in which case a checklist is a nuisance.
Something fairly complex that I don't know well, haven't flown before, or hasn't flown before (I've done a few first flights of new or rebuilt aeroplanes), I'm perfectly capable of taking 20+ minutes. But, I certainly won't do it blocking a taxiway, I'll tuck the aeroplane well out of everybody's way.
Cranfield is a particularly difficult place, because it's laid out with narrow taxiways towards the thresholds. Combine that with a lot of student pilots, lots of them flying aeroplanes that struggle to do a 360 in the width of those narrow taxiways, and you're pretty much certain to have this daft situation. Much trouble could be solved if runups for 21 on 18 before taxiing along A, or on Apron 5 before taxiing for 03. But this really is criticism of local layout and procedures - if you don't set up a training airfield to allow for variable and often longish runups, then you're going to get problems.
Certainly however, checking avionics and warming an engine up are best done somewhere else (either before or after brakes-off depending upon how, and whether, I'm paying for the aeroplane!).
G
A simple aeroplane that I know well and have good recency in, potentially under a minute, possibly whilst taxiing. I tend not to do things on the ground from memory, because I don't need to, unless it's open cockpit in which case a checklist is a nuisance.
Something fairly complex that I don't know well, haven't flown before, or hasn't flown before (I've done a few first flights of new or rebuilt aeroplanes), I'm perfectly capable of taking 20+ minutes. But, I certainly won't do it blocking a taxiway, I'll tuck the aeroplane well out of everybody's way.
Cranfield is a particularly difficult place, because it's laid out with narrow taxiways towards the thresholds. Combine that with a lot of student pilots, lots of them flying aeroplanes that struggle to do a 360 in the width of those narrow taxiways, and you're pretty much certain to have this daft situation. Much trouble could be solved if runups for 21 on 18 before taxiing along A, or on Apron 5 before taxiing for 03. But this really is criticism of local layout and procedures - if you don't set up a training airfield to allow for variable and often longish runups, then you're going to get problems.
Certainly however, checking avionics and warming an engine up are best done somewhere else (either before or after brakes-off depending upon how, and whether, I'm paying for the aeroplane!).
G
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A lot of the checks can be done before start and before the Pax arrive. In corporate flying we have most things ready including the start up clearances before the PAX enter.
The idea is to start taxi and takeoff within minutes in one flowing move.
Its much easier with a Co as he can check what is done and that nothing has been missed.
Single Pilot in a light aircraft its often easier to do things from memory and then visually check against the check list to confirm.
A Military Pilot used to instruct by getting his students to the line up point without a checklist only then would he let them use a checklist?
Has to be better than flying by numbers as the time you will forget an item will be the time you cannot use the checklist for one reason or other.
Pace
The idea is to start taxi and takeoff within minutes in one flowing move.
Its much easier with a Co as he can check what is done and that nothing has been missed.
Single Pilot in a light aircraft its often easier to do things from memory and then visually check against the check list to confirm.
A Military Pilot used to instruct by getting his students to the line up point without a checklist only then would he let them use a checklist?
Has to be better than flying by numbers as the time you will forget an item will be the time you cannot use the checklist for one reason or other.
Pace
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People should take as long as they need to, however anyone who takes 20 minutes to get an aircraft started and moving needs to have a word with themselves.
Never rush anything, but there's no need to take as much time as it takes to read war and peace.
Never rush anything, but there's no need to take as much time as it takes to read war and peace.
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I was flying recently in a rented cessna and paying on the hobbs meter. I don't hang around doing my checks as in a cessna single, with a bit of practice, you should be able to do most of the checks in the time it takes to warm up on a cold day. There is something incredibly frustrating about being stuck behind a badly positioned aircraft taking half the day to do its checks! This can amount to £20 -£30 in hire charges for no good reason. If you are going to be overly thourough in your checks please position to minimize frustration and inconvenience/cost to your fellow airfolk!
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In my own aircraft I can do the checks from memory and it is quite quick, but in cold weather it takes a bit of time for the oil to reach the magic 50deg C. In hot weather or for the second start of the day, it is possible to get airborne relatively quickly, provided I have done my pre-planning and have a pre programmed SD card to set the EFIS up for the days flying.
I like to be a good citizen and modify my SOP to help out if the airfield is particularly busy, so I will make a departure from an intersection etc, but with an aircraft which only requires 150m to get airborne and has a high RofC I am not taking much of a risk. In a more traditional machine I would be much more conservative, particularly if I did not know the maintenance history.
Rod1
I like to be a good citizen and modify my SOP to help out if the airfield is particularly busy, so I will make a departure from an intersection etc, but with an aircraft which only requires 150m to get airborne and has a high RofC I am not taking much of a risk. In a more traditional machine I would be much more conservative, particularly if I did not know the maintenance history.
Rod1
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I qualified as a military pilot some 30 years ago and all checks HAD to be learned and executed from memory. For 95% of us this involved sitting in an aircraft on the ground/in the hangar often with a fellow stude for hours on end until we cracked it 
Checklists, whilst carried in our pockets, could only appear for SOME emergency drills.
Today, I use a checklist and take all the time I need
Checklists, whilst carried in our pockets, could only appear for SOME emergency drills.
Today, I use a checklist and take all the time I need
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I fly less often than I would like.
Consequently I rent, and it's been a variety of club steeds.
So, taking care to keep out of the way ...
- prelim and external checks are nerdishly slow and pedantic. (On one occasion I spotted that both tank vents were blocked with paint from a respray a year earlier. Good job both filler cap seals were knacked)
- power checks and vital actions are read from the list, with thumb under each item.
Sunday Bloody Driver
Consequently I rent, and it's been a variety of club steeds.
So, taking care to keep out of the way ...
- prelim and external checks are nerdishly slow and pedantic. (On one occasion I spotted that both tank vents were blocked with paint from a respray a year earlier. Good job both filler cap seals were knacked)
- power checks and vital actions are read from the list, with thumb under each item.
Sunday Bloody Driver
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I'm a big believer that one should be blind-fold familiar with one's aircraft. I'm also a big believer that one should take as much time as one needs to accomplish each phase of the flight.
On fire flights, many times we tried to be within five minutes from dispatch to wheels in the air. Sometimes a little longer for loading and any ground delays. That means being completely preflighted and ready to go, first thing in the morning. Flight gear hanging on the side of the airplane and cockpit flows made getting airborne to be a quick process. Everything was done on the go.
Preflights shouldn't be rushed. Neither should before start, after start, taxi, or before takeoff checklists. Take the time you need. Being familar with the airplane and the procedures helps a lot. One can shorten the time required by doing flows in the cockpit and around the airplane. Doing things in a logical order, as a flow pattern, doing all the checks, then consulting a checklist to ensure everything was accomplished, makes things go faster.
I like checklists done out loud, and done as challenge and respose. I do the full checklist, out loud, even when flying alone.
I'm a big believer that if a checklist or flow is interrupted, it should be done again, started from the beginning. Too easy to pick up again at the wrong point and miss something. Start over.
Don't rush warm-up times. Don't be in such a big hurry that you miss the point of the checks that are being done. During the mag check, for example, don't just note an RPM drop; let it stabilize, note the value, and note the smoothness or roughness of the working mag. During a carb heat check, don't just look for a drop, but give it fifteen seconds or so; make sure that any ice that's present gets melted, check for roughness. When cycling the propeller, let it cycle, if the manufacturer approves or allows; don't just pull it back and slam it forward again. Do it several times; get warm oil in the propeller.
With time and experience, some things can be done on the fly, moving. Doing mag checks while holding the brakes is nonsensical, but sometimes in the case of a long, straight taxiway, the checks can be done while moving. When flying to rough fields, especially ones with loose chips, I'll often do a mag check in flight prior to landing. Care must be taken, but as it sometimes isn't advisable on a loose surface, doing checks in advance can be a benefit.
Take the time one needs; don't worry about how long it takes anyone else.
On fire flights, many times we tried to be within five minutes from dispatch to wheels in the air. Sometimes a little longer for loading and any ground delays. That means being completely preflighted and ready to go, first thing in the morning. Flight gear hanging on the side of the airplane and cockpit flows made getting airborne to be a quick process. Everything was done on the go.
Preflights shouldn't be rushed. Neither should before start, after start, taxi, or before takeoff checklists. Take the time you need. Being familar with the airplane and the procedures helps a lot. One can shorten the time required by doing flows in the cockpit and around the airplane. Doing things in a logical order, as a flow pattern, doing all the checks, then consulting a checklist to ensure everything was accomplished, makes things go faster.
I like checklists done out loud, and done as challenge and respose. I do the full checklist, out loud, even when flying alone.
I'm a big believer that if a checklist or flow is interrupted, it should be done again, started from the beginning. Too easy to pick up again at the wrong point and miss something. Start over.
Don't rush warm-up times. Don't be in such a big hurry that you miss the point of the checks that are being done. During the mag check, for example, don't just note an RPM drop; let it stabilize, note the value, and note the smoothness or roughness of the working mag. During a carb heat check, don't just look for a drop, but give it fifteen seconds or so; make sure that any ice that's present gets melted, check for roughness. When cycling the propeller, let it cycle, if the manufacturer approves or allows; don't just pull it back and slam it forward again. Do it several times; get warm oil in the propeller.
With time and experience, some things can be done on the fly, moving. Doing mag checks while holding the brakes is nonsensical, but sometimes in the case of a long, straight taxiway, the checks can be done while moving. When flying to rough fields, especially ones with loose chips, I'll often do a mag check in flight prior to landing. Care must be taken, but as it sometimes isn't advisable on a loose surface, doing checks in advance can be a benefit.
Take the time one needs; don't worry about how long it takes anyone else.
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SNS3Guppy
I fly in a MC invironment. We spend a long time checking the aircraft and all the other things required before the flight so that the aircraft is ready to go when the PAX arrive.
If for whatever reason we are really tight on time (PAX arrive late with Slot times) We may even on occasion have the one engine started)
Normally we run through the checks in the correct MC manner.
On occasion because I know my co pilot well and the aircraft very well I will run the checks from memory while getting the co to read them out and visually check the items on the move. We still confirm those items.
The point I am tying to make is that as a pilot there are occasions when you have to up the game and knowing not just the aircraft but the check items facilitates a smooth, prompt operation.
There are pilots who plod through the checklist as if they are reading a recipe book (add three teaspoons of sugar, stir three times etc)
One slow speed which can give the PAX the idea that you are such a bad pilot you need a guide to fly a bit like the German pilot in those magnificent men and their flying machines with a how to fly an aeroplane hand book. He was fine until the handbook blew out of his hands and stuck on the tail of the plane
where was he then??? He had to climb out and retrieve it)
I still hold with the fact that there are occasions on the ground and in the air where knowing your checklist from memory with the checklist as backup is a far safer way than letting the aircraft run away from you and other events overtake you.
The times when you should be on page 4 of your checklist not page 2
Pace
I fly in a MC invironment. We spend a long time checking the aircraft and all the other things required before the flight so that the aircraft is ready to go when the PAX arrive.
If for whatever reason we are really tight on time (PAX arrive late with Slot times) We may even on occasion have the one engine started)
Normally we run through the checks in the correct MC manner.
On occasion because I know my co pilot well and the aircraft very well I will run the checks from memory while getting the co to read them out and visually check the items on the move. We still confirm those items.
The point I am tying to make is that as a pilot there are occasions when you have to up the game and knowing not just the aircraft but the check items facilitates a smooth, prompt operation.
There are pilots who plod through the checklist as if they are reading a recipe book (add three teaspoons of sugar, stir three times etc)
One slow speed which can give the PAX the idea that you are such a bad pilot you need a guide to fly a bit like the German pilot in those magnificent men and their flying machines with a how to fly an aeroplane hand book. He was fine until the handbook blew out of his hands and stuck on the tail of the plane
where was he then??? He had to climb out and retrieve it)I still hold with the fact that there are occasions on the ground and in the air where knowing your checklist from memory with the checklist as backup is a far safer way than letting the aircraft run away from you and other events overtake you.
The times when you should be on page 4 of your checklist not page 2
Pace
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After parking my car at the airport, I go to the tower to file the flightplan. Time of departure is filed about 40 min in the future.
After that, pulling out the bird from the hangar and the walkaround take 10-15 min. Then I prepare the charts, GPS, headsets, whatever... 5 min.
I load the baggage and passengers, start up the engine and do the flows like after-start, pre-taxi and radio contact. At this point I am working at least 20 min, probably around 30. For me it is the part of the big fun, why to make it shorter?
Now with the engine slowly warming up, I do the short taxi to the apron and brief the passengers while moving. Depending on number of passengers and their silly questions, it will take up to 5 min. The runway is closer and the pax seeing the seriousness of the situation, they usually stop talking
This is the right time to prepare the G1000 and do all the flows up to before takeoff. This is the serious one, 5-7 min with double checking everything.
Another short taxi to the holding point. The runup and before takeoff are done on the runway. It takes less than a minute, no problem with the traffic, this is a quiet place. Next minute we are airborne.
The 40 minutes are necessary for me, but this includes the overhead times like walking between the tower and hangar.
I do all the flows from memory. Skyhawk is simple and I can touch all the critical controls always in the same sequence so I will not miss one.
miroc
After that, pulling out the bird from the hangar and the walkaround take 10-15 min. Then I prepare the charts, GPS, headsets, whatever... 5 min.
I load the baggage and passengers, start up the engine and do the flows like after-start, pre-taxi and radio contact. At this point I am working at least 20 min, probably around 30. For me it is the part of the big fun, why to make it shorter?
Now with the engine slowly warming up, I do the short taxi to the apron and brief the passengers while moving. Depending on number of passengers and their silly questions, it will take up to 5 min. The runway is closer and the pax seeing the seriousness of the situation, they usually stop talking
This is the right time to prepare the G1000 and do all the flows up to before takeoff. This is the serious one, 5-7 min with double checking everything.
Another short taxi to the holding point. The runup and before takeoff are done on the runway. It takes less than a minute, no problem with the traffic, this is a quiet place. Next minute we are airborne.
The 40 minutes are necessary for me, but this includes the overhead times like walking between the tower and hangar.
I do all the flows from memory. Skyhawk is simple and I can touch all the critical controls always in the same sequence so I will not miss one.
miroc