How Quick are your checks?
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Jan
Sorry but we are crossing the line a bit
As some of us are ATP corporate as well as Private GA enthusiasts.
But also dont forget some lucky few may be private PPL IR jet owners too?
Any rich B out there???
Nevertheless the principles of one can cross to the other???
Apart of course the paying clients bit.
Pace
Sorry but we are crossing the line a bit
As some of us are ATP corporate as well as Private GA enthusiasts.But also dont forget some lucky few may be private PPL IR jet owners too?
Any rich B out there???
Nevertheless the principles of one can cross to the other???
Apart of course the paying clients bit.
Pace
Pace, I was aware of the subtle difference between "private flying" and "recreational flying". Very often, there will be little difference. In the present discussion the difference is relevant, however: as a recreational pilot, I positively refuse to count the time for flight preparation, checklists included. The whole flying experience is sufficiently expensive that I won't have any bit of it shaded by time pressure.
When the bill is paid by someone else, that person will wish to have a word to say on how the money is spent - whoever has the money defines the rules of the game, in all games.
Of course we should take care not to obstruct runways, taxiways &C but that is a point of good airmanship & polite manners, nothing to do with the time taken.
When the bill is paid by someone else, that person will wish to have a word to say on how the money is spent - whoever has the money defines the rules of the game, in all games.
Of course we should take care not to obstruct runways, taxiways &C but that is a point of good airmanship & polite manners, nothing to do with the time taken.
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It is however relevant in the UK, where billing is usually Wet and brakes-off to brakes-on, so after the brakes are released and one starts taxiing along, people rush like crazy to get in the air.
To an owner, the ground time is irrelevant, because he logs purely airborne time for maintenance purposes, and the fuel flow on the ground is negligible.
To an owner, the ground time is irrelevant, because he logs purely airborne time for maintenance purposes, and the fuel flow on the ground is negligible.
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Jan
But surely as a private leaisure pilot who has to pay his own hard earned money to fly you will want to spend as much of that hour or so up in the air?
You will not want to spend it stuck behind 3 training aircraft in the hold as they go through every check in slow motion.
You will not want to be taxiing along miles of taxiways?
I am sure you will want to get the whole process from start to takeoff completed as quickly and efficiently as possible even down to your own checks.
Pace
But surely as a private leaisure pilot who has to pay his own hard earned money to fly you will want to spend as much of that hour or so up in the air?
You will not want to spend it stuck behind 3 training aircraft in the hold as they go through every check in slow motion.
You will not want to be taxiing along miles of taxiways?
I am sure you will want to get the whole process from start to takeoff completed as quickly and efficiently as possible even down to your own checks.
Pace
I certainly do not like to waste my money - as you said it is hard enough to earn - but neither do I want to waste the quality of my flying. So neither will I hurry through my own preparation nor will I allow myself to get nervous over another pilot taking her/his time to do things properly - whatever that may mean to her/him. Take-off carries risk and stress enough that I do not want to do it while recovering my breath from hurriedly pulling the plane out of the hangar, neither while recovering my calm after wishing all devils from hell on a fellow pilot.
I surely have occasionally taxied past a plane that left the apron before me, only to spend a long time in the field on whatever activity I saw no (more) need for, to take off first. Operating from a grass strip with no marked taxiways this is never impossible.
Looking back, I was taught to check as much as possible before even starting the taxi. Because if any check goes wrong it is "back to the apron" anyway. Without any document at hand I only recall the engine run-up just before take-off, and checking the turn-coordinator when turning in the taxi run. And a second verification of flaps and trims during the taxi.
Most of all, I was taught to take whatever time it takes. No more of course, but no less either. All praise to my instructors! And no, they were not professionally paid, not by a long way. At times I had to insist before they'ld accept any money at all.
I surely have occasionally taxied past a plane that left the apron before me, only to spend a long time in the field on whatever activity I saw no (more) need for, to take off first. Operating from a grass strip with no marked taxiways this is never impossible.
Looking back, I was taught to check as much as possible before even starting the taxi. Because if any check goes wrong it is "back to the apron" anyway. Without any document at hand I only recall the engine run-up just before take-off, and checking the turn-coordinator when turning in the taxi run. And a second verification of flaps and trims during the taxi.
Most of all, I was taught to take whatever time it takes. No more of course, but no less either. All praise to my instructors! And no, they were not professionally paid, not by a long way. At times I had to insist before they'ld accept any money at all.
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Jan
Cannot argue with what you say I too dream of a private strip with something like a cub or Husky or even a VLA I can drag out of the hangar for a stroll around the skies early summer mornings.
We are all after different things the picture of the private strip is miles away from the intensity of hard IFR, slot times and pressure that SNS3Guppy so well described in certain corporate jet ops.
Pace
Cannot argue with what you say
I too dream of a private strip with something like a cub or Husky or even a VLA I can drag out of the hangar for a stroll around the skies early summer mornings.We are all after different things the picture of the private strip is miles away from the intensity of hard IFR, slot times and pressure that SNS3Guppy so well described in certain corporate jet ops.
Pace
Mind you I never spoke of a private strip. Was referring to a certain Belgian aerodrome which has become the venue for my occasional aerial exercises.
And I really believed my adversity to the word "hanger" (or at least to its inappropriate use) had become legendary. Sigh. I'll not set up another rant.
And I really believed my adversity to the word "hanger" (or at least to its inappropriate use) had become legendary. Sigh. I'll not set up another rant.
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Some replies mention "clients" , which puzzles me a bit. Aren't we supposed to discuss private flying here? How can there be a client in private flying?
Aviation does not exist in a vacuum. General aviation is not merely private pilots flying weekend missions to get a hamburger (or fish and chips, as one might). General aviation encompasses many other aspects of flying, from crop dusting to banner towing to corporate, fractional, charter, photography, and other flying. Is operating a Cessna 172 from A to B with a "client" passenger any different than flying the same route using the same airplane with a private pilot at the stick and aunt Bessie in back? Not really.
What I do find very interesting in the private pilot world, sometimes, is the assumption that if one flies big airplanes, of flies corporate, or flies for a living, one couldn't possibly understand or have any part in private flying or general aviation as the private pilot sees it. Ironically, there's often a sense that the experienced pilot has no place. More ironic is that the experienced pilot may have ten thousand hours of experience in general aviation, may be an active participant and instructor, may own his own light airplane, may be an aircraft mechanic or engineer, and may have something to say based on a lifetime of experience in general aviation, but isn't welcome.
I've seen it happen right here, time and time again. You said "clients," that's not part of our world, and doesn't apply. You're discussing a big airplane, it doesn't apply (never mind that the "big airplane" is single engine, general aviation, tailwheel, and as close to barnstorming as one can get any more). Those procedures don't apply to us, yada, yada.
The private pilot is an interesting animal. Hungry for information, the private pilot in it's student form is the rarest of students in the world of learning. The student pilot really wants to learn, and is paying through the nose to do it. The student pilot hungers to read everything, learn everything, know everything, hear about it all. A change takes place, like an instar or life form of an insect, when the student becomes a private pilot. Many, the great challenge of learning to fly being perceived over, shortly quit thereafter. No longer able to justify the money or time, they fade away. Others, however, continue, taking advantage of their new-found privileges and skills. Some go on to buy airplanes, even, or join with a club.
Somewhere in there, during this metaphorical transformation (for metaphysical tranformation seldom takes place...don't see too many private pilots sprout wings form their back), the private pilot begins to know everything. I see that more in the world of private pilots than in the circles of commercial pilots or ATP's. I don't see it so much in the lower rungs of commercial pilots, the ones doing their first few years of flying (instructors, cargo, banners, etc), and I don't see it so much in the advanced years, either. By and large, of any form, it's nearly always the private pilots who can't be told anything, and have no desire to learn. It's also, ironically, the private pilots who often seem to feel that they've experienced it all. I'm reminded very much of the teenager, of whom is said "teenagers, now is the time to leave home and pay your own way, while you still know everything."
Lest you think I'm pounding private pilots or hate them, I'm not. I've created many of them as an instructor and teacher, and whereas I once held nothing more than a private pilot certificate, and still hold private privileges concurrent with my ATP, I'm one, too.
Another trait I often see is the locality trait. This isn't endemic to private pilots per se, but it's found in most places by people who don't get out much. It's the "you couldn't possibly understand us" trait, the one that says "things are different here. You're not from here, you wouldn't understand." It does somewhat tend to dismiss those who travel the world and have been there, and have done that, and still do that regularly. It's the same trait that laughs at and ridicules experience. I see it here a LOT.
I know many professional pilots who don't want anything to do with aviation when they're done getting paid to fly. They get off their shift, off their flight, off their line, and they're done. They want a different world. That's hard for the aviation enthusiast to understand, sometimes. After all, the private pilot works very hard to get the little bit of flying that he or she does. How could anyone who worked so hard to be where they are in a flying career be so dismissive, as the airline pilot who goes home to golf and doesn't think about an airplane again until it's his turn to go fly? How could he possibly enjoy his work, if he doesn't want any part of it?
I know many professional pilots like that, and while I can share the private pilot sentiment of not fully understanding them, I do understand the mentality of those who want to go home and do something else. After all, if one has flown all one's life, and does it eighty to a hundred twenty hours a month or more (figuring three to four hours involvement for every hour of flying, at a minimum, often with fourteen to eighteen hour duty days on the job), it's no wonder that they want a break.
Conversely, I know many professional pilots who stay very involved in general aviation during their careers, including during their off times. Many of us will jump at the chance to go flying any time. You'll find many of them at the local FBO or flyin club, hanging out, talking flying, living flying, giving instruction, renting, building, teaching, and participating.
The corporate airplane with it's "client" passengers often lands at the same airfields that you do in your Cessna 172 or Cirrus. The corporate or ag or banner airplane uses the same airspace, the same flight rules, the same air traffic control, and makes the same radio calls. The working airplane buys fuel from the same source, uses the same radio. Reads the same charts. Files the same flight plans.
Some private pilots fly single engine Cessnas. Others fly turboprop Pipers. Others fly their own King Air, Citation, or Lear. Some private pilots have their own SNJ or Travel Air. Others a Corsair. Some a pitts. Some land on beaches and mud flats in their Cub, while others use their Bonanza for personal transportation and the occasional pleasure flight. Some private pilots carry clients to look at their building project from the air, or to bring their client to the office from a neighboring city to make a book deal. Some private pilot businessmen make good use of their personal airplane to serve their clients, ranging from the serviceman who flies to client locations to work on their equipment, to the salesman who visits clients in the field, or brings clients to see a product. Even the salesman who's clients are the pilots to whom he is trying to sell the airplane.
Let's not dismiss others who fly, especially if they have something to offer, because you don't prefer the semantics in their choice of words. You might just miss the greater message.
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I have the checklist completed and my taxi clearance prior to leaving the main terminal apron. When I begin taxi to the active runway holding bay, I swing my instruments: compass, turn and bank, heading ind. etc.
When I arrive at the active r/w holding bay all that is left for me is a visual check for traffic, carb heat check for icing, landing light on, xponder to alt., then I contact tower and advise ABCD ready for immediate T/O r/w ##, get my T/O clearance and roll on the active and initiate warp drive.
It takes about 60 seconds to do the above and enter the r/w if there is no traffic on final.
If I am going to need a delay on the r/w, I tell the tower I am ready for take with a short delay requested, before I taxi on the active r/w. This is usually so I may position for a full r/w, static run up take off.
The advantage at this facility is a large apron for checks so that holding bay checks are minimal plus I am not flying the complex Confederation Starship Enterprise.....
When I arrive at the active r/w holding bay all that is left for me is a visual check for traffic, carb heat check for icing, landing light on, xponder to alt., then I contact tower and advise ABCD ready for immediate T/O r/w ##, get my T/O clearance and roll on the active and initiate warp drive.
It takes about 60 seconds to do the above and enter the r/w if there is no traffic on final.
If I am going to need a delay on the r/w, I tell the tower I am ready for take with a short delay requested, before I taxi on the active r/w. This is usually so I may position for a full r/w, static run up take off.
The advantage at this facility is a large apron for checks so that holding bay checks are minimal plus I am not flying the complex Confederation Starship Enterprise.....
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Fine. Replace "clients" with "passengers," if it makes you feel better. Perhaps you would be better served putting words in others mouths then, rather than letting them speak for themselves.
Passengers and clients make very different demands. You need to understand how and why their demands are different and how this can impact on the management of the flight. I worry that you dont.
Jan makes a fair point, since few on here fly with "clients" but many with passengers; you should not replace one with the other.
Pace makes some very good observations as to why the demands of clients are often quite different from passengers and why the CAA and others make an important distinction in licensing between providing a service for remuneration and not.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 9th Jan 2011 at 20:23.
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ABCD ready for immediate T/O
Yes, as an FI teaching ab-initio students the first couple of takeoffs they do themselves may involve up to 10s stationary on the runway, but anything more than that (in a simple SEP, or MEP!) is poor training practice. With experience that can be reduced down to even less, ideally just enough to confirm correct runway and then go. Most of us brief students that as soon as the hold is crossed we have the intention to get airborne, so why delay?? "Ready for immediate takeoff" just sounds a bit arrogant over here - ie "I'm in a hurry, I want to go NOW".
2 countries, separated by a common language
"Ready for immediate takeoff" just sounds a bit arrogant over here - ie "I'm in a hurry, I want to go NOW".
I do not fly at controlled a/d's myself, but was always taught we should consider controllers as people working for us - and in other contexts I was taught to be polite versus people working for me, especially if they have any degree of authority.
Slightly off-topic: hearing how the big people do it, and taking their example where applicable, has been a great inspiration to my R/T.
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Madlandrover and Jan,
I do see you point on my "immediate take off." This is used (my intentions) to let the ATC know I can go whenever they have an opening. In other words I am not going to hesitate on the r/w and gum up their timing etc.
That's why I mentioned in the same post "ready for takeoff with a slight delay requested." For the same consideration for their timing.
I assure you no arrogance intended. Canada is a lovely place to fly, and I constantly try not to be a bugger in their airspace or on the radio.
This airport has 10+ training aircraft and also commercial freight in and out plus private so it gets busy sometimes.
Thanks for that point of view, as you mention common language 2 countries.
Regards
I do see you point on my "immediate take off." This is used (my intentions) to let the ATC know I can go whenever they have an opening. In other words I am not going to hesitate on the r/w and gum up their timing etc.
That's why I mentioned in the same post "ready for takeoff with a slight delay requested." For the same consideration for their timing.
I assure you no arrogance intended. Canada is a lovely place to fly, and I constantly try not to be a bugger in their airspace or on the radio.
This airport has 10+ training aircraft and also commercial freight in and out plus private so it gets busy sometimes.
Thanks for that point of view, as you mention common language 2 countries.
Regards
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No, not fine at all.
Clients are passengers.
Then again, acting professionally means treating fuelers, personnel on the line, behind the counter, briefers, and anyone else with whom one works during a flight operation, as a client.
Yes, passengers are clients, whether you're getting paid for the flight or not.
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Clients are passengers.
"Clients" originally referred to the relationship between a lawyer and the person he represents. It is commonly used these days where the relationship is very different, often I suspect to imply an unnecessary sense of self importance. Everyone understands being a passenger of the rail company, or airline, or cruise ship - if I say I had enjoyed my experience as a passenger without mentioning "on what" everyone would expect me to have been involved with some form of transport, whereas if I said I enjoyed my experience as a client, they would probably think I had been to see my accountant or lawyer.
Anyway, back to the point.
The relationship between a pilot and his pax can be very different. On this forum we all understand flying with friends. Sometimes they expect us to operate like a mini airliner and cant understand why we might want to stay on the ground when the weather is on the deck, but with luck we can manage these expectations if, for any other reason, they cant fire us!
Passengers, at least in the sense of those who fly on commercial flights, are different again. They have no interaction with the crew and therefore no influence on the conduct of the flight. The pilots' employers may bring other pressures on the crew, but again these are different and managed differently. In fact post 9/11 operators have successfully created a sterile enviroment between flying crew and their passengers.
Finally, there is the relationship between a pilot who is flying his employer which I think is what Pace was discussing. We have already heard of those clients who expect to taxi within minutes of their arriving in the cabin. Where the pax in the back are paying for the aircraft, paying the crew, have immediate access to the crew, and "think they are calling the tune" the relationship is different again. Moreover, in this enviroment, the passenger(s) expect to fly to their time, after all they are paying a great deal of money to do so and it is probably their expereince that this is exactly what they get.
A private pilot on this forum rarely, if ever, has to deal with the demands that can be placed on a commercial crew interacting directly with their emloyer and aircraft owner. Moreover rightly, or wrongly, our regulatory authority demands commercial crew display a different skill set from private pilots.
For all of these reasons clients are not passengers either in sense or substance. Every pilot might have pax or passengers with him, but managing the demands and expectations of those passengers can be very different and it would serve us well to treat each as unique.
That does not mean it isnt an interesting subject for debate, but it does mean you make a fatal error in thinking each is the same as laudable as you might like to treat every passenger with equal "contempt"!
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No.
"Clients" originally referred to the relationship between a lawyer and the person he represents. It is commonly used these days where the relationship is very different, often I suspect to imply an unnecessary sense of self importance.
"Clients" originally referred to the relationship between a lawyer and the person he represents. It is commonly used these days where the relationship is very different, often I suspect to imply an unnecessary sense of self importance.
client - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education
cli·ent audio (klnt) KEY
NOUN:
1. The party for which professional services are rendered, as by an attorney.
2. A customer or patron: clients of the hotel.
3. A person using the services of a social services agency.
4. One that depends on the protection of another.
5. A client state.
6. Computer Science A computer or program that can download files for manipulation, run applications, or request application-based services from a file server.
ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English, from Old French, from Latin clins, client-, dependent, follower; see klei- in Indo-European roots
NOUN:
1. The party for which professional services are rendered, as by an attorney.
2. A customer or patron: clients of the hotel.
3. A person using the services of a social services agency.
4. One that depends on the protection of another.
5. A client state.
6. Computer Science A computer or program that can download files for manipulation, run applications, or request application-based services from a file server.
ETYMOLOGY:
Middle English, from Old French, from Latin clins, client-, dependent, follower; see klei- in Indo-European roots
Perhaps your passengers do not depend on you for safety, or to protect them from harm. In general, however, the definition of pilot in command is the person to whom is entrusted the safe outcome of the flight. The duty of the pilot in command is to protect the aircraft and passengers from harm by operating professionally, safely, and within the constriction of the guidelines and regulations that govern the flight.
Most assuredly a passenger is a client.
Treating every passenger as a client, with respect, while protecting their safety is not an act of contempt, but a standard act of airmanship. A passenger, as your customer, should expect no less.
Customer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A customer (also known as a client, buyer, or purchaser) is usually used to refer to a current or potential buyer or user of the products of an individual or organization, called the supplier, seller, or vendor. This is typically through purchasing or renting goods or services. However, in certain contexts, the term customer also includes by extension any entity that uses or experiences the services of another. A customer may also be a viewer of the product or service that is being sold despite deciding not to buy them. The general distinction between a customer and a client is that a customer purchases products whereas a client purchases services.
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Oh dear, one loses the will to live...
Regarding "ready for immediate takeoff", this should not be used because the only time a pilot is allowed to use the word "takeoff" is in reply to his takeoff clearance.
This was one of the results, I think, of the famous Tenerife 2-airliner runway collision in the 1970s.
The purpose is to prevent some unrelated and hot under the collar pilot hearing the lone word "takeoff" (e.g. as a result of a garbled transmission) and putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 and thinking it was his takeoff clearance, and entering the runway...
However, saying "Nxxxx ready for immediate" (without speaking the word "takeoff") is fine and is widely used commercially too. It is appropriate in certain situations; examples:
(1) There is an aircraft on final but still miles away, the ATCO doesn't know you** and this lets him know that you are ready to get off quick
(2) You have two runway entrances, with a long queue for the furthest one, with a student (or a low currency pilot) bogged down at the head of the queue, and you are all ready to go right and happen to be next to the other entrance, and there is plenty of runway available to depart from there
(3) The ATCO is obviously incompetent (go to Valencia, among many examples in southern Europe) and this is a way hopefully doing something about the situation. How well it works probably depends on who else in on duty; in Spain it may have the opposite effect, and Ryanair/Easyjet tend to use it to let off steam
**This is never spoken overtly but ATC do give priority to pilots who they know are not going to give them trouble. For example somebody who is obviously having trouble with the radio and other stuff is unlikely to be given a "land after". The ATC at a given airfield also know which of the locals are OK to be asked to orbit on base leg, etc.
Regarding "ready for immediate takeoff", this should not be used because the only time a pilot is allowed to use the word "takeoff" is in reply to his takeoff clearance.
This was one of the results, I think, of the famous Tenerife 2-airliner runway collision in the 1970s.
The purpose is to prevent some unrelated and hot under the collar pilot hearing the lone word "takeoff" (e.g. as a result of a garbled transmission) and putting 2 and 2 together to get 5 and thinking it was his takeoff clearance, and entering the runway...
However, saying "Nxxxx ready for immediate" (without speaking the word "takeoff") is fine and is widely used commercially too. It is appropriate in certain situations; examples:
(1) There is an aircraft on final but still miles away, the ATCO doesn't know you** and this lets him know that you are ready to get off quick
(2) You have two runway entrances, with a long queue for the furthest one, with a student (or a low currency pilot) bogged down at the head of the queue, and you are all ready to go right and happen to be next to the other entrance, and there is plenty of runway available to depart from there
(3) The ATCO is obviously incompetent (go to Valencia, among many examples in southern Europe) and this is a way hopefully doing something about the situation. How well it works probably depends on who else in on duty; in Spain it may have the opposite effect, and Ryanair/Easyjet tend to use it to let off steam
**This is never spoken overtly but ATC do give priority to pilots who they know are not going to give them trouble. For example somebody who is obviously having trouble with the radio and other stuff is unlikely to be given a "land after". The ATC at a given airfield also know which of the locals are OK to be asked to orbit on base leg, etc.
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I think you miss the point.
By that definition passengers in your car are clients, your wife sitting next to you is a client. You are ulitmately responsible for their safety and could just as easily kill them through your neglect. By all means tell your wife she is a client next time you take her for a ride down town or better still if she spots you with your girlfriend you can tell her "never mind I was only with a client giving her a ride".
I dont diminsih the importance of a driver or pilot at all. It is not necessary to borrow words that originally had another meaning to make their relationship appear more important. People in aircraft are passengers or pax if you prefer.
A few years ago many of the trains in the UK started refering to their passengers as clients - "we would like to welcome our clients on board" and all that rubbish - thank goodness I see many have gone back to calling them what they are - passengers. I can just imagine being picked up by a London black cab driven by a salt of the earth East Ender asking him to refer to me as a client - he would tell me I was haven a laf, your a "fare mate" and "no two ways about it, Gov!".
Mind you I gather the oldest profession refers to their customers as "clients" these days so what do I know. I suppose they have a duty of care as well these days.
Fact is I dont really mind what you call them. More interesting is the suggestion that every passenger or client (as you prefer) is the same.
My comment with regards "contempt" may have been a little subtle and tongue in cheek - sorry.
The inference was if you treat every passenger with the same "contempt" it matters not whether they are your boss, your mother-in-law, your wife or girl friend you have equal "contempt" for the lot of them when they "demand" you do something with which you are uncomfortable.
So back to the serious point in hand I was simply pointing out that your original post was wrong because in reality their is a huge temptation to "give in" to certain pressures - to ignore that would be to deny the human condition. The pressures on an airline pilot, a private pilot and a commercial pilot flying his "clients" are different and it is as well to recognise the differences. That was the reason I felt compelled to respond to your earlier post.
Even if you think you treat them all the same subtely you dont. As we have heard the way checks are carried out for a "client" are different almost always from the way a private pilot performs his checks. That doesnt mean one is any more or less safe but it does mean their are different reasons why things could go wrong.
I guess you would know that from when your client is the Government and you are ducking small arms fire for flag and country - a different client, different pressures and different rules.
By that definition passengers in your car are clients, your wife sitting next to you is a client. You are ulitmately responsible for their safety and could just as easily kill them through your neglect. By all means tell your wife she is a client next time you take her for a ride down town or better still if she spots you with your girlfriend you can tell her "never mind I was only with a client giving her a ride".
I dont diminsih the importance of a driver or pilot at all. It is not necessary to borrow words that originally had another meaning to make their relationship appear more important. People in aircraft are passengers or pax if you prefer.
A few years ago many of the trains in the UK started refering to their passengers as clients - "we would like to welcome our clients on board" and all that rubbish - thank goodness I see many have gone back to calling them what they are - passengers. I can just imagine being picked up by a London black cab driven by a salt of the earth East Ender asking him to refer to me as a client - he would tell me I was haven a laf, your a "fare mate" and "no two ways about it, Gov!".
Mind you I gather the oldest profession refers to their customers as "clients" these days so what do I know. I suppose they have a duty of care as well these days.
Fact is I dont really mind what you call them. More interesting is the suggestion that every passenger or client (as you prefer) is the same.
My comment with regards "contempt" may have been a little subtle and tongue in cheek - sorry.
The inference was if you treat every passenger with the same "contempt" it matters not whether they are your boss, your mother-in-law, your wife or girl friend you have equal "contempt" for the lot of them when they "demand" you do something with which you are uncomfortable.
So back to the serious point in hand I was simply pointing out that your original post was wrong because in reality their is a huge temptation to "give in" to certain pressures - to ignore that would be to deny the human condition. The pressures on an airline pilot, a private pilot and a commercial pilot flying his "clients" are different and it is as well to recognise the differences. That was the reason I felt compelled to respond to your earlier post.
Even if you think you treat them all the same subtely you dont. As we have heard the way checks are carried out for a "client" are different almost always from the way a private pilot performs his checks. That doesnt mean one is any more or less safe but it does mean their are different reasons why things could go wrong.
I guess you would know that from when your client is the Government and you are ducking small arms fire for flag and country - a different client, different pressures and different rules.
Last edited by Fuji Abound; 10th Jan 2011 at 11:50.
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So back to the serious point in hand I was simply pointing out that your original post was wrong because in reality their is a huge temptation to "give in" to certain pressures - to ignore that would be to deny the human condition.
One had better not be giving in to "certain pressures." If one feels pressured, one had best stay on the ground.
One of the most important abilities a pilot must have is that which enables him to say "no."
Even if you think you treat them all the same subtely you dont.
I guess you would know that from when your client is the Government and you are ducking small arms fire for flag and country - a different client, different pressures and different rules.
Different rules and regulations, yes, but personnel on board were treated no differently, and with no less courtesy, and there was no less effort at reading checklists out loud and executing them in full.
If someone pressures me, or a circumstance arises which brings to bear "pressure," it sends up a big red flag which says "perhaps we ought not do this right now." There is no flight which must be made, and if one feels pressured to make it, it's nearly certainly a warning that one shouldn't go.