Headsets are so damn espensive
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The best noise reduction is Clarity Aloft. I have tried Bose, DC and many others. However, some people don't like the earpieces in their ears.
Most of the aerobatic pilots use Clarity as they are very lightweight and by far the best in a noisy cockpit.
Happy Xmas
Most of the aerobatic pilots use Clarity as they are very lightweight and by far the best in a noisy cockpit.
Happy Xmas
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I have to say i think most aviation headsets are extremely overpriced, when you look at the actual product. Particularly Bose, who overprice many of their products on the basis of the strength of their brand. Not saying they aren't good but nearly £1000? Come on.
Of course it's a small market compared with, say, domestic and professional audio headphones - maybe that's why the usual market competition forces don't as well as they might.
Of course it's a small market compared with, say, domestic and professional audio headphones - maybe that's why the usual market competition forces don't as well as they might.
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Part of the expense attached to aviation headsets vs. non-aviation headsets, particularly nearly identical ones, is that the aviation headsets are TSO'd, meeting technical standard order criteria.
David Clark, for example, produces nearly identical headphones for industrial use, which aren't TSO'd headsets. Use a different plug on the end and a different microphone appropriate to the application, and you have the same components in the same headsets. Telex does the same.
The QC-15 headset previously mentioned is an off-the-shelf audio headphone for listening to music. It costs three hundred dollars. The new A20 was patterned off the QC-15, and uses the same technology. The A20 was the Bose X stepping up to QC-15 standards in fact (plus it added a music input and bluetooth capability).
The uflymic is a TSO'd microphone assembly that accepts a music input (no bluetooth), which plugs into the CQ-15, effectively providing the same audio capability, sound clarity, and transmission capability as the A20, but for substantially less. Add the earbuds that the company sells, and the entire assembly becomes fully TSO'd and capable, with redundant backup.
A week and a half ago, I was.
Presently I'm at home with my family, enjoying both Christmas and New Year. Thanks for your abiding interest and deep concern.
The QC with uflymic was there with me, incidentally, and doing an excellent job.
Not impressed. I've used sennheisers, and didn't like them. Others with whom I work have bought them, and don't care much for them. On-ear, vs. over-the-ear makes a lot of difference in comfort. An earpiece which rests against the ear, instead of surrounding it, tends to create hotspots, and doesn't offer nearly the sound attentuation or clarity that an earcup going around the ear will do.
Having said that, the particular headset you're after is an earcup headset, going around the ear. I wasn't very impressed with Sennheisers quality or sound, but your experience may be different. The particular headset that you linked looks rather bulky and not too robust; for that kind of money I'd much rather have something that will hold up to some abuse.
As for the headsets referenced on ebay, the avcoms, I have several of them, each modified with the oregon aero products I mentioned earlier in the thread. they've all held up perfectly for quite a few years now. No problem at all. Again, one doesn't need to spend a lot of money to have good communication that lasts, and that provides excellent hearing protection.
David Clark, for example, produces nearly identical headphones for industrial use, which aren't TSO'd headsets. Use a different plug on the end and a different microphone appropriate to the application, and you have the same components in the same headsets. Telex does the same.
The QC-15 headset previously mentioned is an off-the-shelf audio headphone for listening to music. It costs three hundred dollars. The new A20 was patterned off the QC-15, and uses the same technology. The A20 was the Bose X stepping up to QC-15 standards in fact (plus it added a music input and bluetooth capability).
The uflymic is a TSO'd microphone assembly that accepts a music input (no bluetooth), which plugs into the CQ-15, effectively providing the same audio capability, sound clarity, and transmission capability as the A20, but for substantially less. Add the earbuds that the company sells, and the entire assembly becomes fully TSO'd and capable, with redundant backup.
I thought Mr Guppy was in Afghanistan,
Presently I'm at home with my family, enjoying both Christmas and New Year. Thanks for your abiding interest and deep concern.
The QC with uflymic was there with me, incidentally, and doing an excellent job.
Anybody has any experience with Sennheiser?--> for audio it´s out brand of choice in the house. But for pilot headsets………I just wouldn´t know!
Having said that, the particular headset you're after is an earcup headset, going around the ear. I wasn't very impressed with Sennheisers quality or sound, but your experience may be different. The particular headset that you linked looks rather bulky and not too robust; for that kind of money I'd much rather have something that will hold up to some abuse.
As for the headsets referenced on ebay, the avcoms, I have several of them, each modified with the oregon aero products I mentioned earlier in the thread. they've all held up perfectly for quite a few years now. No problem at all. Again, one doesn't need to spend a lot of money to have good communication that lasts, and that provides excellent hearing protection.
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Don't forget that some of the less popular headsets work well. Maybe not as well as an A20 but offer much better value for money.
I picked up a pair David Clark H10-13XL ANR for 250 quid "brand new". The minted previous owner didn't like them so I got them for a song having been used for less than 5 hours. Lets face it there are alot of people in aviation with more money then sense so there is some hangar chat bargains to be found.
Having now used them for the last two years I have to say I am very pleased with them and have now sold my too feeble for instructing lightspeed zulus.
Yes they are not perfect - battery life isn't great (5 hours with rechargeables) heavier than bose-x etc but they are more than upto the job far better than any passive headset I have owned and are built like a brick****house so should last me another 25 years or so.
I picked up a pair David Clark H10-13XL ANR for 250 quid "brand new". The minted previous owner didn't like them so I got them for a song having been used for less than 5 hours. Lets face it there are alot of people in aviation with more money then sense so there is some hangar chat bargains to be found.
Having now used them for the last two years I have to say I am very pleased with them and have now sold my too feeble for instructing lightspeed zulus.
Yes they are not perfect - battery life isn't great (5 hours with rechargeables) heavier than bose-x etc but they are more than upto the job far better than any passive headset I have owned and are built like a brick****house so should last me another 25 years or so.
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Apparently non rechargeables last alot longer. Rechargeable PP3 are 8.4 volts rather than 9.0V which accounts for the shorter life.
I'm tight so I go with rechargeables.
I'm tight so I go with rechargeables.
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(Plus I'm finding the ole Telex 750s absolutely rubbish, especially when talking to the Italians...)
Perhaps...it's what is under the headset that is the problem...
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Non-rechargeables always last longer, for both versions of any particular chemistry.
Usually there is a ~ 5x difference.
However, rechargeables are getting pretty good. The Sanyo ENELOOP "AA"-size NIMH cells are amazing; way better than traditional NICD or NIMH due to their flatter discharge behaviour, have a much lower self discharge than traditional NICD/NIMH, and are bettered only by lithium non-rech AA cells which cost £8 for a pack of 4 (but those are the very best)...
Of places I've been to in Europe, Italy and Spain have a large % of ATCOs who cannot speak or understand any English, beyond the dozen stock phrases. A good headset helps but I think familiarity with their procedures (if you can call it that), and a good ear for English so heavily accented so as to be almost illegible to a normal English person (an ability some people have, some haven't) does a lot more.
Usually there is a ~ 5x difference.
However, rechargeables are getting pretty good. The Sanyo ENELOOP "AA"-size NIMH cells are amazing; way better than traditional NICD or NIMH due to their flatter discharge behaviour, have a much lower self discharge than traditional NICD/NIMH, and are bettered only by lithium non-rech AA cells which cost £8 for a pack of 4 (but those are the very best)...
Of places I've been to in Europe, Italy and Spain have a large % of ATCOs who cannot speak or understand any English, beyond the dozen stock phrases. A good headset helps but I think familiarity with their procedures (if you can call it that), and a good ear for English so heavily accented so as to be almost illegible to a normal English person (an ability some people have, some haven't) does a lot more.
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A good headset helps but I think familiarity with their procedures (if you can call it that), and a good ear for English so heavily accented so as to be almost illegible to a normal English person (an ability some people have, some haven't) does a lot more.
Personally, I find it strange that some of the new(er) guys just simply don't try...just complain.
IF they complain too much...I do all the flying and they get to 'practise' their ATC skills just a bit more.
Works every time...
Decent headsets matter, but I think that the case is being overstated a bit here.
I have several headsets for various purposes. Yes, in a long flight on a noisy aeroplane - particularly if the intercom isn't brilliant I'll use the Bose-X. For long flights in a very quiet cockpit, I'll use a lightweight Telex. On the other hand however, for flights up to a couple of hours in a not-too noisy light aeroplane, and especially if I'm flight testing and I want to pick up on any funny noises - I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website.
Do they protect my hearing adequately? I've been wearing them in a variety of light aeroplanes for 10 years, and still pass the hearing test on a class 1 medical. So, I'd argue that they do. Given that they cost me about £90 in 2000, they've certainly given me value for money.
Most independent assessments, incidentally, tend to put the Bose first, the passive David Clarkes second, then pretty much everything else somewhere below that. So, a couple of hundred quid on a pair of decent DCs will certainly serve you well - you really don't *need* to spend £1000ish on latest model Bose.
G
I have several headsets for various purposes. Yes, in a long flight on a noisy aeroplane - particularly if the intercom isn't brilliant I'll use the Bose-X. For long flights in a very quiet cockpit, I'll use a lightweight Telex. On the other hand however, for flights up to a couple of hours in a not-too noisy light aeroplane, and especially if I'm flight testing and I want to pick up on any funny noises - I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website.
Do they protect my hearing adequately? I've been wearing them in a variety of light aeroplanes for 10 years, and still pass the hearing test on a class 1 medical. So, I'd argue that they do. Given that they cost me about £90 in 2000, they've certainly given me value for money.
Most independent assessments, incidentally, tend to put the Bose first, the passive David Clarkes second, then pretty much everything else somewhere below that. So, a couple of hundred quid on a pair of decent DCs will certainly serve you well - you really don't *need* to spend £1000ish on latest model Bose.
G
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On the other hand however, for flights up to a couple of hours in a not-too noisy light aeroplane, and especially if I'm flight testing and I want to pick up on any funny noises - I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website.
I've just guiltily purchased a Lightspeed Zulu headset for Christmas (it was the magnesium that did it....). One thing that concerns me about ANR is that it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.
Yes, headsets seem so very expensive for what you are getting, though 30 years ago I did purchase a lovely set of headphones for listening to music. They were several hundred AUS$'s back then, I shudder to think what they would cost now.
Likely the law of diminishing returns certainly applies "spending twice as much won't get you something that's twice as good". (except if it has magnesium...)
Regards,
Steven in Winnipeg.
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it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.
Also, I think, noises from inside the engine are barely audible to the pilot anyway - headset or not. The noise in a closed cockpit is mostly propwash, wind, and exhaust. If a bearing is going to seize up, you probably won't hear anything.
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I've just guiltily purchased a Lightspeed Zulu headset for Christmas (it was the magnesium that did it....). One thing that concerns me about ANR is that it will make it a lot harder to hear "grinding metal" noises? Guess time will tell.
In turbine single turboprops, I elected to go without ANR because I thought it was too quiet. In most other applications, however, I've found that ANR hasn't proven to be an impediment in the cockpit.
I use Bose at the moment, and I find that hearing other crewmembers speaking is possible with the headset on, but not easy. Bearing in mind I do have some hearing loss, I keep the headset cocked off my hear on the side I'll be listening to other crewmembers, during takeoff and landing. I do this with any type of headset, as a rule, except in circumstances where everyone is on an ICS (intercom system).
I find that with ANR on, I can still hear the airplane, from a popping circuit breaker to any chime, alarm, alert, or typical cockpit sound.
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My son bought 2 Bose A20 as a Christmas and birthday present for me and after using them for only 4 hours have decided to buy another two for the rear seat passengers. They are so far ahead of the "current" ANR headsets we have been using. If you can afford them then go for it, it is a decision you will never regret I believe
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I agree, but make sure they have the latest serial numbers.
Bose recalled all A20 headsets a couple of months ago. I can't find the URL ATM (it was Bose EU) but it gives the S/N (which you find inside the battery box) after which they are OK. It is the mike assembly which needs changing.
Bose say only about 1-2% of the pre- headsets were faulty but who knows? I have one of those and it works fine. But from their description it sounds like a tantalum or electrolytic capacitor fitted the wrong way round, which could have interesting results
I asked Headset Services if they had the replacement mike assembly and they had not heard of the recall... so I showed them the URL. They said they have no A20 parts and the whole headset would have to go back to Bose.
These things happen. I bought a Pentax K5 camera, only to find it has pretty major sensor defects - along with approx 50% of all K5s made. The dealers have returned all stocks to Pentax, but there is no new stock due until sometime in January.
Bose recalled all A20 headsets a couple of months ago. I can't find the URL ATM (it was Bose EU) but it gives the S/N (which you find inside the battery box) after which they are OK. It is the mike assembly which needs changing.
Bose say only about 1-2% of the pre- headsets were faulty but who knows? I have one of those and it works fine. But from their description it sounds like a tantalum or electrolytic capacitor fitted the wrong way round, which could have interesting results
I asked Headset Services if they had the replacement mike assembly and they had not heard of the recall... so I showed them the URL. They said they have no A20 parts and the whole headset would have to go back to Bose.
These things happen. I bought a Pentax K5 camera, only to find it has pretty major sensor defects - along with approx 50% of all K5s made. The dealers have returned all stocks to Pentax, but there is no new stock due until sometime in January.
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Try Welcome to the A20 update page | Bose.eu - Bose® A20? Aviation Headset
I had to swap the cable although I had no previous difficulties.
I had to swap the cable although I had no previous difficulties.
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"I still swear by an elderly pair of HM40s - which are currently £77 a pair on Harry Mendelsson's website."
Me too I brought a pair for my students in 1993 and they are still going strong Almost as robust as DC.
Local hangar chat gives the story that Harry Mendelsson took a pair of DC 10-40 to Taiwan and told them to make a copy but at half the price.
Me too I brought a pair for my students in 1993 and they are still going strong Almost as robust as DC.
Local hangar chat gives the story that Harry Mendelsson took a pair of DC 10-40 to Taiwan and told them to make a copy but at half the price.
Headset purchase
[B]Locarno & anyone else reading this thread:[B]
On-Track Aviation @ Wellesbourne Mountford A/F are closing down their Pilot Shop at years end.
All items, including headsets available at 50% off RRP. Perhaps this will solve your problem of finance but be quick!
With fraternal greetings,
ambi
On-Track Aviation @ Wellesbourne Mountford A/F are closing down their Pilot Shop at years end.
All items, including headsets available at 50% off RRP. Perhaps this will solve your problem of finance but be quick!
With fraternal greetings,
ambi