CAA PPL post EASA?

[warpspeedmrsulu]

the title says it all. anyone have any idea whether the old CAA national licences will continue to exist? i did a search but found nothing.

also, can you add JAR ratings to CAA national licences?

ta

[Mike Cross]

You just failed your Google skills test
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/620/srg_l&...s_Sept2010.pdf

[Whopity]

can you add JAR ratings to CAA national licences?

This has been possible since Jan 2000. With the exception of the IMC rating and SLMG Class rating, they have been the only ratings you can add to an old CAA licence.

Its interesting to note the contradiction contained in the above CAA reference to the EASA one where Matthias states on page 4 that their main goal is to ensure pilots do not loose existing privileges!

[FormationFlyer]

Indeed. My UK CPL looks like its going to a EASA CPL would do just that - lose me privileges. Im curious to know how they square this away. Ah well. I guess Ill have to my IR current then..

[BillieBob]

Not only will the UK PPL continue to exist but it is likely that the CAA will have to start re-issuing national CPLs and ATPLs as well to cover aircraft like the DC3, for example.

[robin]

Only if the CAA sort it out with EASA first.

[Mike Cross]

Why? The proposed regulation is aimed at requiring an EASA licence to fly an EASA aircraft. If you don't want to fly an EASA aircraft what's to stop you doing it on a National licence? That's what our own CAA expects to happen.

[robin]

My point is that the CAA is giving permission for those with hours on EASA aircraft to be counted against the national licence requirements as they are able to do.

What we haven't heard about is whether or not the CAA is lobbying EASA to allow for a direct grandfathering of the current ICAO-compliant UK-PPL to the future ICAO-compliant EASA PPL.

We've seen the document that advises us to move to the JAR-licence in anticipation of the change, but this comes at an unnecessary cost.

[bookworm]

What we haven't heard about is whether or not the CAA is lobbying EASA to allow for a direct grandfathering of the current ICAO-compliant UK-PPL to the future ICAO-compliant EASA PPL.

The (proposed) conversion process for UK PPL to EASA PPL is set out in Part-FCL Annex 2. It's almost identical for the current process of converting a UK PPL to a JAR-FCL1 PPL.

[flybymike]

But the EASA/JAR PPL requires radio nav training which is not an ICAO requirement. Implementing this requirement for transfer from National to EASA licensing, effectively emasculates what is already a perfectly valid National ICAO licence.

[robin]

Quite


A pragmatic NAA would say that it would save time and effort and b*gger*ation factor if all UK ICAO-compliant licences automatically transferred. To do that they need to get EASA to agree.

Instead, from what I see the CAA don't seem to be arguing the matter at EASA, just asking for an extension (and money for more staff) to go through the transition for 15,000 licences.

They want us to make their life easier by forking out £180 to transition to the JAR licence which will become the EASA PPL. If we do then they get around £2.7m in fees.

So the choice - do nothing and aim to get £2.7m in revenue or argue with the EASA hydra and gain the respect of UK-PPLs for no money.

Hmm. Difficult choice

[flybymike]

They want us to make their life easier by forking out £180 to transition to the JAR licence

Plus, (for those who don't already have it, and are perfectly happy to potter along the magenta line or even to look out of the window) the cost of radio nav training @Xhours x instructor dual rate.

[warpspeedmrsulu]

thanks for the replies gents, and the document mike.

i'll buy everyone on the private flying forum a beer if the JAA / EASA handover all goes smoothly!

after the experience of CAA / JAA, what can possibly go wrong?!

[Whopity]

from what I see the CAA don't seem to be arguing the matter at EASA

You clearly don't understand the way EASA works. The CAA has no more ability than you or I to influence EASA.

[robin]

True, but it would be good to see them try instead of just rolling over.

[S-Works]

True, but it would be good to see them try instead of just rolling over.

Why, just to make you feel better?

The last government handed over all the power to be able to do anything about it to Europe years ago while they concentrated on creating the UK nanny state.

[trevs99uk]

I asked Easa through a rule making task to remove the need for every NAA (UK CAA) the need to replace every current pilot license with a new EASA license.
Alone this is going to cost the UK CAA 10 million pounds and across europe considerably more just to issue a new license to every european pilot.

I think this is wrong every over form of license people across europe hold (driving license etc ) has,nt needed to be replace ??? why a pilot license.
I can understand licenses being replaced as they come up for renewal or changes to circumstance.



See response i got.:-

Thank you for highlighting this issue to EASA with your proposal
concerning "Removal of the need for the NAAs to issue new FCL licences".

After consultation and review by the competent Agency services, we have
come to the following conclusion:
As for the time being the implemented regulations vary throughout
Europe, the existing licences have to be converted to European Part-FCL
licences as required in the Cover Regulation to Part-FCL, to make sure
that they all apply the same standards.
Regulation (EC) No 216/2008 (Basic Regulation, BR) Article 4, 2.
requires that personnel involved in the operations of aircraft referred
to in paragraph 1(b), (c) or (d) shall comply with this Regulation.
Article 7, 2. states that except when under training, a person may only
act as a pilot if he or she holds a licence and a medical certificate
appropriate to the operation to be performed and a person shall only be
issued a licence when he or she complies with the rules established to
ensure compliance with the essential requirements (etc.). Article 7, 6.,
b) then defines that the conditions for issuing, maintaining, amending,
limiting, suspending or revoking licences, ratings for licences, medical
certificates etc. shall be adopted, which will be done with Part-FCL.
This means that to comply with this Regulation only pilot licences that
are issued in accordance with the BR and Part-FCL can be considered to
fulfil the requirements and this makes it indispensable to re-issue all
pilot licences.

The proposed rulemaking task therefore cannot be followed.

We hope to have given you satisfactory response to your query.

Best regards,
Kirsti Reinartz
on behalf of EASA Rulemaking

[Mike Cross]

Sir Humphrey would be so proud.

"We can't do it because there is a rule that says we can't."

"on behalf of EASA Rulemaking"

"As for the time being the implemented regulations vary throughout
Europe"

Ah! That will be because we all standardised on JAR-FCL. All of our licenses are issued to the same standards, which explains perfectly why the regulations are all different.

[Whopity]

this is going to cost the UK CAA 10 million pounds

On what do you base this figure? They replaced all the licences to add English Language Proficiency 2 years ago for a fraction of that amount.