Landing Fees @ Regional Airports
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Landing Fees @ Regional Airports
I posted this under the Airports section but in retrospect this may be a more relevant sorry for any duplication. I have seen a lot of discussion re fees etc so what do private pilots consider a fair and reasonable landing fee inc handling, for an aircraft max all up weight of between 1000kg and 1500kg, not inc VAT at airport that has the facilities of a regional airport ie fully licensed, instrument approaches, full fire cover, customs etc? 
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1000-1500kg, 15 quid.
That's if you want repeat visits - either for the proverbial £100 burger, or for meeting up with people.
People travelling on business would pay more (say £50 if there was an ILS - that makes a huge difference to business flying ability).
If the airport was in some fantastic location, where the typical visitor visited just once every few years, then you can charge more. For example Prague LKPR was getting plenty of (upmarket) light GA when they were around the £60 mark, in 2005. Now they are more like £150 and hardly anybody goes there, leaving the ~ 10 staff in the "old terminal" twiddling their thumbs. I fly there, and to other £150 locations, every few years. I cannot think of any suitable "desirable" examples in the UK though.
That said, there is a big section of UK GA which won't pay more than a fiver, but you can't please everybody. These are mostly homebuilt/microlight pilots, and they fly a lot between strips. It is an interesting and valid business case whether you want to attract sub-1000kg traffic at £5 a pop. GA presents very little in terms of variable costs so all of that £5 will be a contribution towards your fixed costs - all the time you are operating below max capacity
And if you set up a separate "GA entrance" for them, they are not going to push your capacity, so that money is all profit.
BTW, there is (I understand) no known case, since WW2, of an airport fire service having saved a single life, in the GA context.
That would require a big change at government level, comparable to the govt giving a grant to the Royal Yacht Club on the basis that the yacht owners pay a lot of income tax (which I am sure some of them do)
That's if you want repeat visits - either for the proverbial £100 burger, or for meeting up with people.
People travelling on business would pay more (say £50 if there was an ILS - that makes a huge difference to business flying ability).
If the airport was in some fantastic location, where the typical visitor visited just once every few years, then you can charge more. For example Prague LKPR was getting plenty of (upmarket) light GA when they were around the £60 mark, in 2005. Now they are more like £150 and hardly anybody goes there, leaving the ~ 10 staff in the "old terminal" twiddling their thumbs. I fly there, and to other £150 locations, every few years. I cannot think of any suitable "desirable" examples in the UK though.
That said, there is a big section of UK GA which won't pay more than a fiver, but you can't please everybody. These are mostly homebuilt/microlight pilots, and they fly a lot between strips. It is an interesting and valid business case whether you want to attract sub-1000kg traffic at £5 a pop. GA presents very little in terms of variable costs so all of that £5 will be a contribution towards your fixed costs - all the time you are operating below max capacity
And if you set up a separate "GA entrance" for them, they are not going to push your capacity, so that money is all profit.BTW, there is (I understand) no known case, since WW2, of an airport fire service having saved a single life, in the GA context.
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at airport that has the facilities of a regional airport ie fully licensed, instrument approaches, full fire cover, customs etc?
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Depends on alternatives in the area. Most of GA does not need ILS, Customs or fire cover. Chances are there is a 600m+ strip down the road with 0 - £5 landing fee. If you have to have the expensive bits then a guess £50 is a snip.
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A touchy subject landing fees. To my common sense for <2000Kg GA £15 would be the upper limit for a sensible landing charge, with perhaps a £10/night parking fee for security at larger aerodromes. No need whatsoever for this "compulsory handling" pish which inflates many aerodromes to £100+ per night - completely indefensible.
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I'll drink to that. If only they did show some generosity of spirit to GA they might find it would benefit them.
I remember that last year Southend were writing asking for help in a planning application but they were probably disappointed at the replies from GA pilots. Having spent years upsetting GA they seem to have expected us to rally round to help. They shouldn't be surprised to get a raspberry in return
Norwich and Exeter both seem to have the same attitude.
I remember that last year Southend were writing asking for help in a planning application but they were probably disappointed at the replies from GA pilots. Having spent years upsetting GA they seem to have expected us to rally round to help. They shouldn't be surprised to get a raspberry in return
Norwich and Exeter both seem to have the same attitude.
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For truly regional airports £25 would be ok with me.
A couple of hours free parking makes huge sense, and thereafter perhaps £20 for a day would not seem unreasonable.
Reminds me of my last visit to Gatwick in less than happy circumstances. The day trip would have probably been around £1,000. The reality there is acres (literally of empty space) and at the "right" time of day one CAT in the approach and a couple of people in the GA portacabin (and very nice people they were) looking for something to do. The reality is BAA just cant be bothered with what they perceive as the hassle. Shame really.
In reality every where is considerably more - Leeds Bradford for a 4 hour visit was well over £100 recently as but one example. Not surprisingly these places end up with "based" aircraft and not a lot more.
A couple of hours free parking makes huge sense, and thereafter perhaps £20 for a day would not seem unreasonable.
Reminds me of my last visit to Gatwick in less than happy circumstances. The day trip would have probably been around £1,000. The reality there is acres (literally of empty space) and at the "right" time of day one CAT in the approach and a couple of people in the GA portacabin (and very nice people they were) looking for something to do. The reality is BAA just cant be bothered with what they perceive as the hassle. Shame really.
In reality every where is considerably more - Leeds Bradford for a 4 hour visit was well over £100 recently as but one example. Not surprisingly these places end up with "based" aircraft and not a lot more.
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As GA traffic (I'm talking sub 1500Kg) is "incidental" to airline traffic and is just fitted in, then what is wrong with 15 quid as an upper limit? The ATCOs are there anyway.
I quite often go down to Plymouth, which is a fantastic little airport. Very professional, full ATC with "approach", instrument approaches, and everything you could want and landing was only about a tenner. We keep going back as a result - I have never been in to Exeter for this very reason.
I landed at Edinburgh, and by the time you added in approach / landing fees then the compulsory handling, the bill was about 95 quid. I only used 130 quids worth of petrol to fly up there from Oxford!
I quite often go down to Plymouth, which is a fantastic little airport. Very professional, full ATC with "approach", instrument approaches, and everything you could want and landing was only about a tenner. We keep going back as a result - I have never been in to Exeter for this very reason.
I landed at Edinburgh, and by the time you added in approach / landing fees then the compulsory handling, the bill was about 95 quid. I only used 130 quids worth of petrol to fly up there from Oxford!
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BTW, there is (I understand) no known case, since WW2, of an airport fire service hav
BTW, there is (I understand) no known case, since WW2, of an airport fire service having saved a single life, in the GA context
Having witnessed two aeroplanes being saved over the years after over enthusiastic priming by students I disagree with the comment in IO540's post. In both cases the students simply did not know (yes I know - it raises questions about the instructor, but it happened) In both cases it was a little late when ATC realised the aircraft were well alight, without the AFS intervention at best the aeroplanes would have been destroyed.
How much is a landing at Birmingham today?
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I read one of the CAA's future airspace consultation docs the other day. The thing that surprised me is that they said that GA contributes 1.4 BILLION pounds to the economy p.a.
You'd think they'd give us free landings after that !
You'd think they'd give us free landings after that !
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Quite instructive to see what the definition of GA is
General aviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rather more than me toddling along in a light single!
General aviation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rather more than me toddling along in a light single!
Regional Airports
France have the right idea.
Flew to Calais today for some instrument approach practice. Cessna 210 turbo-prop conversion.
4 ILS, 1 hold, 1 landing. 30 €, and a nice pate baguette for lunch !!
Flew to Calais today for some instrument approach practice. Cessna 210 turbo-prop conversion.
4 ILS, 1 hold, 1 landing. 30 €, and a nice pate baguette for lunch !!
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France
Yep, France is good.Two weeks parking at Carcassonne, plus three landing fees, 32 Euro last year. Great value. Perpignan the same.
Ibiza with a pick up included, from memory, 15 euro.
I am Glasgow based, and pay as resident 26 quid. Given I get full ILS, night arrivals, et al I think is very fair value.
What pisses me off is the guy/female that used to hide in the bushes at Plockton, jump out as you were leaving stuffing an invoice in your hand, and the might of Highlands accounts department afer you for 12 quid.I always argued claiming it was a strip of tarmac, with bugger all 'services'.Made no difference mind you
Ibiza with a pick up included, from memory, 15 euro.
I am Glasgow based, and pay as resident 26 quid. Given I get full ILS, night arrivals, et al I think is very fair value.
What pisses me off is the guy/female that used to hide in the bushes at Plockton, jump out as you were leaving stuffing an invoice in your hand, and the might of Highlands accounts department afer you for 12 quid.I always argued claiming it was a strip of tarmac, with bugger all 'services'.Made no difference mind you
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Everythig has a value
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If the USA can make it work, then we with our far, far higher fuel taxes are being taken for mugs having to pay landing fees at all.
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Everything has a value. If there is no landing fee, something is wrong.
Theoretically a system where is no such thing as fuel tax and every service has to be paid according to its value is IMHO better. I can understand that this model helped the GA a lot in USA, but it is still a kind of redistributing the fuel tax and that's wrong.
Are you sure somebody is doing this (redistributing) the optimal way? What if some places have longer/wider/better runway with ILS if somewhere nearby is a place which needs it more but the responsible person has worse or no contacts at FAA (or whoever is deciding about the money)?
I didn't fly in UK (yet) but in Austria/Germany the fees between 15 and 20 EUR are normal at places like Straubing, Vilshofen, Zell am See with 1+km asphalt runways. They have decent briefing rooms, restaurants and other facilities too. As the equivalent of 15 GBP it is acceptable. But the question is where is the fuel tax going?
The fees at bigger airports with compulsory handling are scaring me away. I was told, at Bratislava (LZIB) - for me the closest one, is a landing with C172 + 1 passenger + 1 night parking + handling = ca. 83 EUR. That's simply unacceptable. The number of movements is low, no real need to keep the GA away. Why they are doing this? Over 30 EUR of this is handling - 300m ride with a bus...
The ideal world would be WITHOUT fuel tax and WITH landing fees. Unfortunately in socialist Europe it remains a dream.
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If the USA can make it work, then we with our far, far higher fuel taxes are being taken for mugs having to pay landing fees at all.
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Everything has a value. If there is no landing fee, something is wrong.
Theoretically a system where is no such thing as fuel tax and every service has to be paid according to its value is IMHO better. I can understand that this model helped the GA a lot in USA, but it is still a kind of redistributing the fuel tax and that's wrong.
Are you sure somebody is doing this (redistributing) the optimal way? What if some places have longer/wider/better runway with ILS if somewhere nearby is a place which needs it more but the responsible person has worse or no contacts at FAA (or whoever is deciding about the money)?
I didn't fly in UK (yet) but in Austria/Germany the fees between 15 and 20 EUR are normal at places like Straubing, Vilshofen, Zell am See with 1+km asphalt runways. They have decent briefing rooms, restaurants and other facilities too. As the equivalent of 15 GBP it is acceptable. But the question is where is the fuel tax going?
The fees at bigger airports with compulsory handling are scaring me away. I was told, at Bratislava (LZIB) - for me the closest one, is a landing with C172 + 1 passenger + 1 night parking + handling = ca. 83 EUR. That's simply unacceptable. The number of movements is low, no real need to keep the GA away. Why they are doing this? Over 30 EUR of this is handling - 300m ride with a bus...
The ideal world would be WITHOUT fuel tax and WITH landing fees. Unfortunately in socialist Europe it remains a dream.
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Sounds like a Biggin Hill type airport. There you're paying c. £20+VAT to land or £50+VAT for an instrument approach. That's too expensive for GA really
The £50 - £70 I pay at Exeter and Newcastle is a bit steep in my opinion.
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The £50 - £70 I pay at Exeter and Newcastle is a bit steep in my opinion.