Australian PPL hiring PA-28 in London area

[DarkSarcasm503]

Hi all,

I'm going to be staying in London on holiday during December/January and would like to hire a PA-28 for a couple of hours.

If it's relevant for airfield suggestions, I'll be staying in Wapping.

My main questions are:
- Is an Aus PPL valid in the UK? (I emailed one UK aero club who said that it wasn't and I'd need to do a further checkout, but I've heard other places that Aus PPLs are valid in the UK so now I'm a bit confused...)
- Are there any airfields around London that will hire to visitors from overseas?
- Are there any major hassles with flying in the UK (airspace requirements etc)?

Any suggestions of things to fly to and see would also be welcome

Cheers

[Whopity]

My main questions are:
- Is an Aus PPL valid in the UK?

Yes it is in accordance with Article 62

Deeming a non-United Kingdom flight crew licence valid
62.—(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), paragraph (2) applies to any licence which authorises the holder to act as a member of the flight crew of an aircraft and is granted—
(a) under the law of a Contracting State other than the United Kingdom but which is not a JAA licence; or
(b) under the law of a relevant overseas territory.
(2) Subject to paragraph (4), for the purposes of this Part, such a licence is, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, deemed to be a licence rendered valid under this Order.
(3) Paragraph (2) does not apply to such a licence if it authorises the holder to act as a student pilot only.
(4) A licence deemed valid under paragraph (2) does not entitle the holder—
(a) to act as a member of the flight crew of any aircraft flying for the purpose of commercial air transport, public transport or aerial work or on any flight for which the holder receives remuneration for services as a member of the flight crew; or
(b) in the case of a pilot’s licence, to act as pilot of any aircraft flying in controlled airspace in circumstances requiring compliance with the Instrument Flight Rules or to give any instruction in flying.
(5) A JAA licence is, unless the CAA gives a direction to the contrary, a licence rendered valid under this Order.

You will still need a checkout by the club and UK RT is going to be quite different to AUS. In the London area CAS is likely to be more complex than anything you have seen before.

[jollyrog]

Surrey and Kent flying club had several PA28s at Biggin Hill. Don't know if they do day rates for visitors, but it should be worth a telephone call. I know some of the members and some of the instructors, I can always make enquiries if you don't get very far.

Headcorn is also easily accessible from Wapping. Short trip on the Underground to London Bridge and a 60 min train to Headcorn. Then, uncluttered airspace of Kent. The club has two PA28s in the fleet. Look up "Headcorn Aerodrome" on the web for a link to the club and details.

Shortest travelling from Wapping is going to be either Biggin Hill, Southend or North Weald.

[Whopity]

Is it required for a foreign ICAO compliant license flying a G reg - to have to undergo a a RT rating in the UK?

The aircraft radio licence states that to operate the station, the operator must either hold a FRTOL issued by the CAA, or operate under the supervision of the holder of such a licence. Article 62 dos not differentiate between Piloting and RT privileges. If an ICAO licence holder has a valid radiotelephone certificate based upon the use of English it is validated by the article. FAA Licence holders must have an FCC Radiotelephone Certificate to operate the radio.

[DarkSarcasm503]

Thanks for your replies

I have to admit I hadn't considered that the RT might be different to here, I guess I just assumed it would be fairly standard everywhere.

So Kent is recommended for lots of uncontrolled airspace?

I will have a car if that changes any of the location suggestions.

[Whopity]

I hadn't considered that the RT might be different to here,

To quote a lady RT Examiner from Adelaide after she sat in the back of a Seneca in Scotland, "RT here is like doing a degree compared to Aus" Around London, its more like doing a Masters!

[Genghis the Engineer]

I've never flown in Aus, but have flown extensively (VFR) in the UK and USA, and occasionally in Eire.

They are all substantially different, and frankly the only one that is reasonably intuitive is Eire!

The CAA's manual on UK RT, CAP 413, is however readily available. And no, it's not simple or intutuitive, regardless of whether you need a licence or not, you need to study it.

G

[jollyrog]

All this RT talk is a little overboard, he only wants a couple of hours in a PA28 and whatever he does, it's going to involve a trip with an Instructor first.

If in doubt, fly from an A/G field and don't turn the radio on. Problem solved!

With a car, all the places I mentioned are easily accessible. I think the problem you're likely to have around that time of year though is that you book something with the Instructor, get a weather blow-out on the check ride and therefore miss out.

If you want a two hour jolly, you are welcome to sit in the right hand seat of my PA28 from Biggin. I'll work the radio! Send me a PM if you'd like.

If not, with your car and reasonable driving distance, I think these are really the places to look at:

Biggin Hill
Headcorn (grass)
Southend
Stapleford
North Weald
Rochester (grass)
Redhill (grass)

[Mark1234]

I flew in the UK on my Aussie PPL for a while - I've got a JAA one off the back of it now. What you will find is that the 'opinion' of what you can and cannot do varies wildly from one operator to the next - I had everything from "Can't fly solo" to "do what you like". The R/T is somewhat different, and you don't want to be expecting to get clearances through controlled stuff as easily as in aus - I don't know whether you're a country flyer, or used to one of the bigger cities - that'll make a big difference.

I didn't have anyone tell me I needed to do any R/T quals to fly solo, If I read correctly, the Aus one is validated/suffices with the aus license (seems 'common' sense, or I don't know how the average airline pilot would cope!) but I wouldn't pretend to have the definitive opinon. I did do prep however (Look up ATSOCAS for one of the big differences).

Whatever, you will need a checkride, in the same way as most operators in aus will want a checkride before letting you play with their toys; it may be a bit more comprehensive. Unfortunately also a much less permissive culture (read - lots of petty bureaucracy) - if you think CASA's bad....

If you want to PM me, I may be able to offer some recommendations depending on what you are after.

[edit - after reading your message again, perhaps PM jollyrog first!]

[Aussie Andy]

G'day - I have flown in both Aus and UK a lot. I always do an hour with an instructor when visiting Australia (UK is home for me last 20+yrs) because of airspace/RT differences.

The airspace in the London area is WAY more complex than around Sydney/Melbourne for example and infringements happen often enough with locals...

It's dead easy to fly in both environments of course - but familiarity counts especially this time of year when wx can be dodgy as well. So my strong recommendation would be to book at least an hour of local familiarisation with whoever you rent from - they'll probably insist anyway!

Wapping is east of London - I would not know who to recommend on that side of town. If you wanted to head west I would strongly recommend Airways Flying Club Learn to Fly - Airways Flying Club at Wycombe Air Park Wycombe Air Park - EGTB | Fly at historic Booker Airfield in High Wycombe Buckinghamshire.

Good luck - and enjoy! Happy to chat if that is helpful as well.

Andy

[OpenCirrus619]

To throw in my tuppence worth:

Probably the cheapest you will find is The Pilot Centre at Denham - but the airspace can be a little challenging.

Headcorn is great for no controlled airspace in the area - Weald Air can provide you with a PA28. If you are looking at Headcorn you could also consider the Tiger Club - if you fancy something different.



OC619

[captainjono]

Hello,

I'd agree with Aussie Andy, you cannot go wrong with Airways Flying Club at Wycombe. They'll look after you and their fleet of aircraft (including 7 PA28s) are kept in top notch condition

[djpil]

Darky, the good news is that you won't have any nasty Wedgetail Eagles chasing you around the sky.
My friend near Oxford offered to help if you're near that part of the country.
I'm sure that MARK1234, jollyrog and the others will look after you.
I must warn you about stiknruda in advance - he is worse than I am
G-KEST is perhaps a bit far way?
DJP

[DarkSarcasm503]

Sorry I haven't replied, pproon didn't bother telling me that people had replied

Slight change of plan now. I had hoped to obtain my PPL before I left but it doesn't seem like that's going to happen (wx has turned to junk and I'm leaving in a week, only got two flights and the test to go too ). So, instead of hiring a PA-28 myself, I'm planning to book a flight with an instructor and tell them I'm at PPL standard, so I'd like to do something more than a usual TIF/joyflight. So now I'm thinking of booking something in an aircraft I haven't tried before and basically have an hour flying around in the UK having a play with a new type of aircraft (and taking a photo of me next to a G rego ).

I would go to the Tiger Club, but I have a feeling that a Tiger in the middle of winter in England would equal me freezing my nose off, so might give the Tiger a miss. Anyone have any suggestions? Headcorn has some Robin DR400s which I've never heard of before, does anyone know what they are like?

DJ: No eagles chasing me? That's it, I'm moving over there!

[Mark1234]

Pitts? There's one at west london aero club (and it has a canopy!).. Scary expensive if you're used to aussie prices tho.

[asyncio]

If the Pitts is a bit to extreme, there is the Firefly at Stapleford, and Bulldogs at North Weald.
I think Redhill has both types available?

[OpenCirrus619]

Some info on the DR400: Robin DR400 Tourer Aircraft from Mistral Aviation

They look like:

and some more photos of Robins at Headcorn:
Weald Air Fleet

The main differences you will find between a DR400 and PA28 (in my humble opinion):

• Better (more responsive) handling
• Stick
• Better visibility

OC619