The flight is not over until .. .. .. everyone elses engine stop.
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
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From: UK
The flight is not over until .. .. .. everyone elses engine stop.
On a miserable day like today perhaps it is worth swapping a story or two.
The theme is something between landing and parking.
I was reminded a while ago that the flight doesnt finish until the engines are off. It also reminded me of two occasions in my flying career I would rather forget.
I recall many years ago visiting Earls Colne for the first time. What a lovely airfield it is. However, I also recall as you taxi to the park there is a dog leg in the taxi way with a large hedge on your left. At your peril if you dont follow the centre line sure as anything you will drag your wing through the hedge - which looks very unforgiving. For some reason my mind was elsewhere - to my chagrin to this day I dont really know how I missed that hedge - but I did, miss it that is. Not only that but I seem to recall there was even a sign to warn absent minded pilots - like me.
I think I am blessed in only having had one other similiar incident between landing and parking - and on this occasion my quick witted crew just happened to take the perfect photo.
This will be a greaser I thought to myself, somewhat contentedly.
How wrong that assumption proved to be.
The transporter in the photo was unbeknown to me doing full power run ups just to one side of the threshold but far enough away not to be noticed. Well as you can imagine a sudden 90 degrees turbulent crosswind does nothing for your constitution just when you thought the wheels were about to kiss the ground and lunch seemed more compelling than flying.
Come on guys, have you any stories between landing and parking for a miserable, wet and windy day / evening.
The theme is something between landing and parking.
I was reminded a while ago that the flight doesnt finish until the engines are off. It also reminded me of two occasions in my flying career I would rather forget.
I recall many years ago visiting Earls Colne for the first time. What a lovely airfield it is. However, I also recall as you taxi to the park there is a dog leg in the taxi way with a large hedge on your left. At your peril if you dont follow the centre line sure as anything you will drag your wing through the hedge - which looks very unforgiving. For some reason my mind was elsewhere - to my chagrin to this day I dont really know how I missed that hedge - but I did, miss it that is. Not only that but I seem to recall there was even a sign to warn absent minded pilots - like me.
I think I am blessed in only having had one other similiar incident between landing and parking - and on this occasion my quick witted crew just happened to take the perfect photo.
This will be a greaser I thought to myself, somewhat contentedly.
How wrong that assumption proved to be.
The transporter in the photo was unbeknown to me doing full power run ups just to one side of the threshold but far enough away not to be noticed. Well as you can imagine a sudden 90 degrees turbulent crosswind does nothing for your constitution just when you thought the wheels were about to kiss the ground and lunch seemed more compelling than flying.
Come on guys, have you any stories between landing and parking for a miserable, wet and windy day / evening.
Fleet Manager
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Ontario, Canada
Despite that fact that it is a magnificent day here (as it has been for the last week!), I'll share...
I was taxing my 150 around the outer taxiway at Toronto International Airport [old] Terminal 1, with all the appropriate clearances etc. (It was back in the day when 150's were still welcomed at YYZ - shows how old I am!).
As I taxiied a few hundered feet behind an Air Canada 767 parked in a "south hold" spot (not at a gate), I was suddenly up on one wheel, being blown off the taxiway. How I managed to not flip over, or even scuff a wing tip, I have no idea! I got back on the pavement, and conveyed my surprised unhappiness to the ground controller. He had seen what happened anyway, judging by the tone of his voice.
You guessed it, the maintenance crew were running one of the 767's engines at full power for whatever reason. Doing this requires a clearance, which they did not have. I'm sure there was trouble, but I never heard. Unfortunately, incidents like that, were one more nail in the coffin of "little plane should not be at big airports".
Now, when I taxi behind a large aircraft, I look at the grass (snow) behind it for signs of power being developed, if I think an engine could be running.
I was taxing my 150 around the outer taxiway at Toronto International Airport [old] Terminal 1, with all the appropriate clearances etc. (It was back in the day when 150's were still welcomed at YYZ - shows how old I am!).
As I taxiied a few hundered feet behind an Air Canada 767 parked in a "south hold" spot (not at a gate), I was suddenly up on one wheel, being blown off the taxiway. How I managed to not flip over, or even scuff a wing tip, I have no idea! I got back on the pavement, and conveyed my surprised unhappiness to the ground controller. He had seen what happened anyway, judging by the tone of his voice.
You guessed it, the maintenance crew were running one of the 767's engines at full power for whatever reason. Doing this requires a clearance, which they did not have. I'm sure there was trouble, but I never heard. Unfortunately, incidents like that, were one more nail in the coffin of "little plane should not be at big airports".
Now, when I taxi behind a large aircraft, I look at the grass (snow) behind it for signs of power being developed, if I think an engine could be running.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: In the boot of my car!
I was reminded a while ago that the flight doesnt finish until the engines are off.
I often find the taxiing part of the flight is the most stressful especially when the ground clearance is more complicated than the air bit.
Pace
Joined: Oct 2000
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From: E Anglia
The earth mound on the right of your photo was especially built at Cambridge many years ago to protect traffic on the Newmarket Road just behind. The C130 had no right to be running up facing into the blast mound............
Cusco
Cusco
Fleet Manager
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From: Ontario, Canada
running up facing into the blast mound............
Joined: Aug 1999
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From: UK
I'm sure that I remember an AAIB report sometime in the last 10years or so involving damage to a light aircraft at cambridge in just the same circumstances.
When was this picture taken?
When was this picture taken?
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pfffft
Ah, this again...you posted this lot on the Flyer forums some time ago.
In brief, as it isn't really for me to explain such matters fully, the type of testing being undertaken on that particular Hercules, on that particular day, precluded it from being parked tail into the engine running bay berm.
It was a highly unusual aircraft running a very particular test, taking advantage of the conditions prevalent on that day.
Your experience was atypical of normal operations at Cambridge, and isn't the norm. I believe you (quite rightly) pursued the issue with Ops at the time. If you felt very strongly about the issue, then there are suitable procedures to raise a flight safety case with the CAA.
It sounds as though you learned many good lessons from this experience, as I am sure the operators of the airfield did too.
NB That photo must have been taken in the region of Sept 2008, if I remember rightly.
This was the side you couldn't see....
In brief, as it isn't really for me to explain such matters fully, the type of testing being undertaken on that particular Hercules, on that particular day, precluded it from being parked tail into the engine running bay berm.
It was a highly unusual aircraft running a very particular test, taking advantage of the conditions prevalent on that day.
Your experience was atypical of normal operations at Cambridge, and isn't the norm. I believe you (quite rightly) pursued the issue with Ops at the time. If you felt very strongly about the issue, then there are suitable procedures to raise a flight safety case with the CAA.
It sounds as though you learned many good lessons from this experience, as I am sure the operators of the airfield did too.
NB That photo must have been taken in the region of Sept 2008, if I remember rightly.
This was the side you couldn't see....
Thread Starter
Joined: May 2001
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From: UK
Thank you for the photo.
I did take up the matter at the time without malice and informally.
I am in no doubt we both benefited from the experience - I know I did.
I hope experiences such as mine are of wider interest for the reasons I gave in the op, no malice is intended and I think the chaps and chapesses at Cambridge are a great bunch.
I just wanted to make that clear in case you thought otherwise.
I did take up the matter at the time without malice and informally.
I am in no doubt we both benefited from the experience - I know I did.
I hope experiences such as mine are of wider interest for the reasons I gave in the op, no malice is intended and I think the chaps and chapesses at Cambridge are a great bunch.
I just wanted to make that clear in case you thought otherwise.
Joined: Sep 2001
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From: Toronto
Many years ago, SEPs were available for rental at CYYZ.
I was landing a Cessna behind a 747 at CYYZ that was in the process of making a 135 degree turn to vacate the active. We decided to cross behind the 747 well above its tail and still got a noticeable buffet.
I was landing a Cessna behind a 747 at CYYZ that was in the process of making a 135 degree turn to vacate the active. We decided to cross behind the 747 well above its tail and still got a noticeable buffet.
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pfffft
Indeed, it's a great flight safety/ILAFT point - Certainly it makes me doubly mindful of what to look out for on a busy airfield! Hopefully everyone else can share their experiences.
I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew Cambridge didn't regularly try to swat GA types with scary great hulks!
I just wanted to be sure that everyone knew Cambridge didn't regularly try to swat GA types with scary great hulks!
Joined: May 2007
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From: Europe
If thread drift is permitted for the sake of aviation interest.....(if not please delete)
That's a fascinating picture. But why are all 4 engines running when the testing must be all about the engine in No. 2 position. Which is?
And what are the yellow "bogies" that seem to be replacing the main landing gear?
These are probably silly questions to an expert, but if you don't ask.......
That's a fascinating picture. But why are all 4 engines running when the testing must be all about the engine in No. 2 position. Which is?
And what are the yellow "bogies" that seem to be replacing the main landing gear?
These are probably silly questions to an expert, but if you don't ask.......
Joined: Sep 2002
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From: Pfffft
Capot: Few reasons; Bleed air required from all three, certain services (hyd/gen) are only attached to particular engines, and jockeying eng 3 & 4 can be used to balance out the thrust from eng 2 so as to present a symmetric load on the undercarriage.
The big yellow things are 'super chocks', also bolted into the ground.
Some of the team from the programme occasionally do a superb talk on all the above and more. You may be able to request the notes from previous talks given at the Royal Aero Society (RAeS).
The big yellow things are 'super chocks', also bolted into the ground.
Some of the team from the programme occasionally do a superb talk on all the above and more. You may be able to request the notes from previous talks given at the Royal Aero Society (RAeS).
Joined: Dec 2006
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From: belgium
Earls Colne...nice airfield, strange taxi procedure. We once got a tirade from the manager or whoever he was because we didnt follow the taxiway but apparently did a backtrack on the runway instead. Well, the patch of grass didn't look like a runway, nor did that little asphalt next to the fence look like a taxiway. A little more signs over there would be nice.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: Hants, UK
There is a road and a petrol station behind that mound at Cambridge. One of the urban legend stories was that the mound had quite a few rabbits living in it.
When Marshalls first got a contract for converting Tristars from airline to military use (tankers?) back in the 1980s they had to perform engine runs. They duly backed the Tristar into the bay in front of the mound and fired up the engine(s). As they throttled up they blew the rabbits over the road into the petrol station!!
When Marshalls first got a contract for converting Tristars from airline to military use (tankers?) back in the 1980s they had to perform engine runs. They duly backed the Tristar into the bay in front of the mound and fired up the engine(s). As they throttled up they blew the rabbits over the road into the petrol station!!
Joined: Mar 2000
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From: U.K.
Originally Posted by Fuji
I recall many years ago visiting Earls Colne for the first time. What a lovely airfield it is. However, I also recall as you taxi to the park there is a dog leg in the taxi way with a large hedge on your left. At your peril if you dont follow the centre line sure as anything you will drag your wing through the hedge - which looks very unforgiving. For some reason my mind was elsewhere - to my chagrin to this day I dont really know how I missed that hedge - but I did, miss it that is. Not only that but I seem to recall there was even a sign to warn absent minded pilots - like me.
