Worst GA Field?
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Chilli Monster.......I agree totally.
Bow5.....and to cap it all an A/G does'nt have to have a view to the airfield. I think the A/g service is valid particulary if training is taking place at an uncontrolled airfield. As long as everyone remembers their limitations. Both airbourne and ground radio. Thruxton at times can have a ATC style chap on the box thinking he is the ANO of the air and hitler to boot. He even tries to argue the fact that customs/immigration is not the pilots responsibility. Never believes you if you have faxed the appropriate authorities. His job is to inform (customs)them of any percieved wrong. doings. i just bypass him altogether becuase of his attitude now.
Bow5.....and to cap it all an A/G does'nt have to have a view to the airfield. I think the A/g service is valid particulary if training is taking place at an uncontrolled airfield. As long as everyone remembers their limitations. Both airbourne and ground radio. Thruxton at times can have a ATC style chap on the box thinking he is the ANO of the air and hitler to boot. He even tries to argue the fact that customs/immigration is not the pilots responsibility. Never believes you if you have faxed the appropriate authorities. His job is to inform (customs)them of any percieved wrong. doings. i just bypass him altogether becuase of his attitude now.
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Re Flying Jet Wannabee and Cumbernauld.
I have been into EGPG loads of times and its a nice friendly airfield. I think reading between the lines you have been stepping on somebody's toes. Dont take it too hard, we have all been there! By the way if nobody answers the radio, you just make blind transmissions. This is normal procedure at most small airfields. The owner I believe is a current CPL/IR.
I have been into EGPG loads of times and its a nice friendly airfield. I think reading between the lines you have been stepping on somebody's toes. Dont take it too hard, we have all been there! By the way if nobody answers the radio, you just make blind transmissions. This is normal procedure at most small airfields. The owner I believe is a current CPL/IR.
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Papawun,
Not trying to start a heated debate by any means. However, please expand on how I could have stepped on anyone's toes, as a paying customer on my QXC? Genuine query...
I was polite, efficent, and did my best on the airmanship. Afterall, I wanted good comments on my QXC form!
Open to your views though...
FJW.
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Fast Jet Wannabe ]</p>
Not trying to start a heated debate by any means. However, please expand on how I could have stepped on anyone's toes, as a paying customer on my QXC? Genuine query...
I was polite, efficent, and did my best on the airmanship. Afterall, I wanted good comments on my QXC form!
Open to your views though...
FJW.
[ 08 January 2002: Message edited by: Fast Jet Wannabe ]</p>
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I absolutely agree about A/G radio. The particular field I am talking about is in a busy area within a MATZ. The person operating the A/G radio pretty much cannot see the circuit. I think the unicom system is far better. There is someone sat on the ground who can give you r/w in use and wind etc. but the communicating is left up to the pilots in the air to sort out.
Excuse my ignorance here, but how can an a/g radio operator issue instructions on how to join the circuit (as they do at this field) but is not allowed to give clearences to land etc. It just seems to me like a total waste of everyones time making things far more complicated than they need to be.
And while we're on the subject of annoying traits of GA fields in the UK, why is its assumed (at every field i've been to) that the pilot is incapable of putting fuel in their aircraft? You always have to prat around trying to find someone to do it for you. The nanny state is everywhere!!
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>
Excuse my ignorance here, but how can an a/g radio operator issue instructions on how to join the circuit (as they do at this field) but is not allowed to give clearences to land etc. It just seems to me like a total waste of everyones time making things far more complicated than they need to be.
And while we're on the subject of annoying traits of GA fields in the UK, why is its assumed (at every field i've been to) that the pilot is incapable of putting fuel in their aircraft? You always have to prat around trying to find someone to do it for you. The nanny state is everywhere!!
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>
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Bow5. A/g can't give you instructions on how to join, the pilot should request joining information. (most don't, asking for instructions). The A/g response is information only. He is not telling you what to do. He is effectively replacing the signals square. You must decide whether considering other traffic, weather, wind, etc etc, whether it is the best course of action for you and those around you. Taking into account local restrictions etc.
What does annoy me is people visiting an airfield and thinking, stuff him he's only A/G and doing their own thing. All perfectly legal perhaps, but doing non standard departures/arrivals can have a grave impact on the local anti lobby. Just plain selfish if you ask me. I suppose you could be braking the law for not complying with the standard flow of traffic at the time.
Re refuelling, my local field has introduced self fuelling and has been inundated with fuel discrepancies and a few hundred litres missing. It's not the nanny state at work its the sad state of the general public I'm afraid.
What does annoy me is people visiting an airfield and thinking, stuff him he's only A/G and doing their own thing. All perfectly legal perhaps, but doing non standard departures/arrivals can have a grave impact on the local anti lobby. Just plain selfish if you ask me. I suppose you could be braking the law for not complying with the standard flow of traffic at the time.
Re refuelling, my local field has introduced self fuelling and has been inundated with fuel discrepancies and a few hundred litres missing. It's not the nanny state at work its the sad state of the general public I'm afraid.
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Re the fuelling thing, I suppose you're right. As with everything in life, it's the pond life minority that spoil it for the rest of us. A few good public floggings would sort those bug***s out.
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>
[ 09 January 2002: Message edited by: bow5 ]</p>
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In the states, I often fill my car at unmanned gas stations where I swipe my credit card or insert a $20 bill and can then deliver fuel to this value. When I hit $20, it cuts off.
Couldn't they do the same for 100LL?...then again, its capital expenditure on equipment... which means money... and in the words of that great bard Harry Hill, what are the chances of that?
Anyway, the guys who man the pumps at EGTE are a great bunch and I'd hate to see them pensioned off for a self service pump.
Couldn't they do the same for 100LL?...then again, its capital expenditure on equipment... which means money... and in the words of that great bard Harry Hill, what are the chances of that?
Anyway, the guys who man the pumps at EGTE are a great bunch and I'd hate to see them pensioned off for a self service pump.
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My home base (which is also my workplace) introduced a self service AVGAS pump about a year ago. It's popular, efficient and with the exception of a few computer based teething troubles, has generally been a success. However, since it's inception I know of at least 5 occasions when pilots have taxied away with the bonding strap still attached! Nanny state? Some individuals shouldn't be let out with a pram, let alone a ton of metal that flies!
Pleased to note, however, that my airfield hasn't featured in the thread yet. We must be doing something right!
Pleased to note, however, that my airfield hasn't featured in the thread yet. We must be doing something right!
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Bow 5,
"I, for one, think at airfields without ATC a unicom system as in the US is far safer allowing pilots to warn each other where they are rather than have to do it through a complicating middle-man."
I think unicom wouldnt work here in the UK.
A) the country is too small - lots of cross transmissions and B) ever tuned into 118.000 on a busy Sunday afternoon? Completely clogged up with Fred & Bill, the microlight pilots flying together and talking about where they've been (some tatty grass strip), where they're going (Another tatty grass strip) and what speed they're doing (about 25kts @ 36000rpm)......No R/T discipline at all!
Unicom works in the States because they are used to talking shyte...
"I, for one, think at airfields without ATC a unicom system as in the US is far safer allowing pilots to warn each other where they are rather than have to do it through a complicating middle-man."
I think unicom wouldnt work here in the UK.
A) the country is too small - lots of cross transmissions and B) ever tuned into 118.000 on a busy Sunday afternoon? Completely clogged up with Fred & Bill, the microlight pilots flying together and talking about where they've been (some tatty grass strip), where they're going (Another tatty grass strip) and what speed they're doing (about 25kts @ 36000rpm)......No R/T discipline at all!
Unicom works in the States because they are used to talking shyte...
Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone for all the replies. Interesting reading. Elstree - ummmm. I know what you all are talking about, its my home field. <img src="eek.gif" border="0">
I started the thread to see if there were other fields like EGTR around; apparently not!
Keep them coming, and lets try not to drift of topic too much.
FS
I started the thread to see if there were other fields like EGTR around; apparently not!
Keep them coming, and lets try not to drift of topic too much.
FS
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[quote] I think unicom wouldnt work here in the UK.
A) the country is too small - lots of cross transmissions and B) ever tuned into 118.000 on a busy Sunday afternoon? Completely clogged up with Fred & Bill, the microlight pilots flying together and talking about where they've been (some tatty grass strip), where they're going (Another tatty grass strip) and what speed they're doing (about 25kts @ 36000rpm)......No R/T discipline at all!
Unicom works in the States because they are used to talking shyte... <hr></blockquote>
It works because there'e more than 1 CTAF frequency - My nearest uncontrolled field (Byron,CA) shares 123.05 with Columbia, CA and Cameron Park, CA, both of which are about 50 miles away. Above about 3000 feet you hear a lot of crosstalk but below that you'll only hear local broadcasts.
Being a US pilot I don't see the value of some guy on the ground telling people how they are supposed to join the pattern - In the US that's available both from the segmented circle (a swastika shaped groud to air signal around the windsock) , the facility handbook and is also marked on the chart. As for active runways wouldn't that be based on what people are currently doing and what the windsock says?
theRolfe
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: theRolfe2 ]</p>
A) the country is too small - lots of cross transmissions and B) ever tuned into 118.000 on a busy Sunday afternoon? Completely clogged up with Fred & Bill, the microlight pilots flying together and talking about where they've been (some tatty grass strip), where they're going (Another tatty grass strip) and what speed they're doing (about 25kts @ 36000rpm)......No R/T discipline at all!
Unicom works in the States because they are used to talking shyte... <hr></blockquote>
It works because there'e more than 1 CTAF frequency - My nearest uncontrolled field (Byron,CA) shares 123.05 with Columbia, CA and Cameron Park, CA, both of which are about 50 miles away. Above about 3000 feet you hear a lot of crosstalk but below that you'll only hear local broadcasts.
Being a US pilot I don't see the value of some guy on the ground telling people how they are supposed to join the pattern - In the US that's available both from the segmented circle (a swastika shaped groud to air signal around the windsock) , the facility handbook and is also marked on the chart. As for active runways wouldn't that be based on what people are currently doing and what the windsock says?
theRolfe
[ 10 January 2002: Message edited by: theRolfe2 ]</p>
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Flyswift,
The thing which bothers me most about Elstree is that the lady who runs the cafe, as pleasant as she is, is as thin as a rake and can't possibly touch the food they serve to stay that way.
What does she know that the rest of us don't????
The thing which bothers me most about Elstree is that the lady who runs the cafe, as pleasant as she is, is as thin as a rake and can't possibly touch the food they serve to stay that way.
What does she know that the rest of us don't????
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Wrong Stuff
Good point - never thought of her that way. Always too interested in my order for a mug of coffee & a bacon in french! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Another thought - wouldn't it be nice if she transfered into the so-called 'Tower'
Good point - never thought of her that way. Always too interested in my order for a mug of coffee & a bacon in french! <img src="tongue.gif" border="0">
Another thought - wouldn't it be nice if she transfered into the so-called 'Tower'
I've spent many hours doing the Air Ground thing from BOTH seats.
I agree that an a/g operator pretending to be an ATC Officer is galling in the extreme. However, I have had occassion over the years to practically tell visiting pilots what to do. Usually that is achieved by giving them a nudge followed by a stream of compelling factors:
xxx Radio this is G-ABCD 10 miles West of your field, 3000ft requesting airfield information.
G-ABCD good morning this is xxx radio. Landing runway is 25, left hand circuit 1200ft, QFE 1027, wind light and variable, caution 6 aircraft in the circuit, we have several student solos in progress
xxx Radio, G-ABCD copy runway 25 QFE 1027, believe we have the field in sight joining straight in approach
Roger G-ABCD, did you copy the circuit traffic..?
Affirm, G-ABCD Finals 6 miles.
G-ABCD, you're new here, you're going to interfere badly in a busy circuit, the suns in your eyes and we DO have a standard overhead join available. Land your discretion. Break Break xxx traffic say position
"G-BNTT Downwind"
"G-BNJK On the Climbout"
"G-BNLS Quite Late Downwind"
"G-BNSA Base"
"G-BNNC Umm, err, Downwind"
"G-BNMM Finals"
Pause
Silence
Umm Welshpool Radio, G-ABCD is joining deadside 2000ft
Good Chap, I'll put the kettle on Break Break xxx traffic be advised we have 4 ducks crossing the runway abeam the old hangar
Sometimes a/g can be a great aid to flightsafety and I prefer it to be there than not.
WWW
I agree that an a/g operator pretending to be an ATC Officer is galling in the extreme. However, I have had occassion over the years to practically tell visiting pilots what to do. Usually that is achieved by giving them a nudge followed by a stream of compelling factors:
xxx Radio this is G-ABCD 10 miles West of your field, 3000ft requesting airfield information.
G-ABCD good morning this is xxx radio. Landing runway is 25, left hand circuit 1200ft, QFE 1027, wind light and variable, caution 6 aircraft in the circuit, we have several student solos in progress
xxx Radio, G-ABCD copy runway 25 QFE 1027, believe we have the field in sight joining straight in approach
Roger G-ABCD, did you copy the circuit traffic..?
Affirm, G-ABCD Finals 6 miles.
G-ABCD, you're new here, you're going to interfere badly in a busy circuit, the suns in your eyes and we DO have a standard overhead join available. Land your discretion. Break Break xxx traffic say position
"G-BNTT Downwind"
"G-BNJK On the Climbout"
"G-BNLS Quite Late Downwind"
"G-BNSA Base"
"G-BNNC Umm, err, Downwind"
"G-BNMM Finals"
Pause
Silence
Umm Welshpool Radio, G-ABCD is joining deadside 2000ft
Good Chap, I'll put the kettle on Break Break xxx traffic be advised we have 4 ducks crossing the runway abeam the old hangar
Sometimes a/g can be a great aid to flightsafety and I prefer it to be there than not.
WWW
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Ducks at curcuit height are not a problem to the experienced operative.The thoughtfull and well prepared ppl always carries oranges with which to bombard these little creatures should they cause concern.Obviously apples are required for flying pigs!