P1/P2 definitive answer to "time logging" question???
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 9
From: UK
It aint that simple.
Both the King Air and the DHC6 Twotter (for example) are certificated as single pilot but in most areas the local CAA requires 2 pilots when in commercial operation. Some allow single pilot commercial operation VFR only, others have more complicated rules.
So - it depends and you have to know the local rules.
One interesting side effect is that a pilot can only log P2 when operating in conditions where the second pilot is required by the rules. Its a mess.
Both the King Air and the DHC6 Twotter (for example) are certificated as single pilot but in most areas the local CAA requires 2 pilots when in commercial operation. Some allow single pilot commercial operation VFR only, others have more complicated rules.
So - it depends and you have to know the local rules.
One interesting side effect is that a pilot can only log P2 when operating in conditions where the second pilot is required by the rules. Its a mess.
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,626
Likes: 12
From: UK
So, if the single pilot a/c certificated for operation by just one pilot, has two pilots then, by implication, it shouldn't/can't fly.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 165
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From: Greater London Area
One interesting side effect is that a pilot can only log P2 when operating in conditions where the second pilot is required by the rules. Its a mess.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Usually a bit more than 3 minutes as if you've cancelled IFR, the taxi and park can reasonably be assumed VFR also?
At least, that's what I've always done in my logbook.
G
At least, that's what I've always done in my logbook.
G
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 578
Likes: 7
From: uk
So you have to log the 3 minutes after "cancel IFR going visual" on the approach separate?
I assume "separate" (sic) in this case means "separately".
If the flight as a whole requires two pilots because part of it is IFR then all of the flight requires two pilots and they log it as such inits entirety. Don't get too het up with divvying one flight up intp different legal blocks, you have to have the legal crew on board from start to finish in order t cope with conditions found en route. If the aircraft is singlepilot VFR, two pilot IFR then any amount of IFR on that flight requires two pilots. You can't start changing pilot requirements to and fro during a flight, what a daft idea! What would happen if the flight were in and out of IFR two dozen times? Is it reasonable, sensible or anything but utterly ridiculous to try divvying up the P1 and P2 duties according to when they popped in and out of cloud? A moment's thought indicates the daftness of that scenario.
You have to be a bit practical about it! Use common sense!
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Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Well yes - my point was about VFR.v.IFR. If any portion of the flight required two pilots (or three pilots, a flight engineer and a wireless operator!), then all log the whole flight. That really is just plain common sense.
G
G
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Oz
3 pilots all logging P1....!
Bizarre situation I experienced in Oz as C130 Captain. Augmented crew (3 Pilots) on a long haul mission. I am Mission Commander and Captain of the aircraft. I sign for it and log P1 'In Command' time for the entire flight. However, for a third of the flight, I sit on the bunk and the other two guys occupy the pilots seats. The pilot in the right seat (right seat qualified) is flying the sector and is sole manipulator of the controls. For that sector he logs P1. Meanwhile, the pilot in the left seat is occupying the recognized 'pilots' seat and therefore also logs P1. So all three pilots log P1 for that period of time.......!
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Bizarre situation I experienced in Oz as C130 Captain. Augmented crew (3 Pilots) on a long haul mission. I am Mission Commander and Captain of the aircraft. I sign for it and log P1 'In Command' time for the entire flight. However, for a third of the flight, I sit on the bunk and the other two guys occupy the pilots seats. The pilot in the right seat (right seat qualified) is flying the sector and is sole manipulator of the controls. For that sector he logs P1. Meanwhile, the pilot in the left seat is occupying the recognized 'pilots' seat and therefore also logs P1. So all three pilots log P1 for that period of time.......!
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