LGKR and LGPZ info?

[mau mau]

Hello mates,
I need to fly from north of Italy to AKTIO (LGPZ) but as i know, there is not AVGAS 100LL available, so I will make refueling stop at Korfu (LGKR) and then proceed for the rest of trip (56nm, in 18' flight).
I looking for informations and suggestion regarding both airports, fax and phone numbers of handling and fuel station and number regarding PPR request. I'll appreciate all the suggestions you will able to give me.
I did some attempt to contact but all the fax numbers or email address I found in internet, are not right
Thanks a lot

[A and C]

Best try to contact Air BP about the fuel, Olympic Airlines are the handling agents.

[IO540]

You need to check aopa.gr - there is a current overview of Greek airports and their facilities.

From memory, I believe Aktio is closed to GA. I've been to Greece many times but this one never featured as any dest or alternate.

They also have airports open to Easyjet etc but effectively closed to visitors e.g. Hania LGSA where you can fly on an airline but it is 20 days PPR for non-Greek GA. I've been there too; the PPR was very tricky and it was only 5 days then.

[mau mau]

I believe Aktio is closed to GA

Closed to AG?? where can I find some information regarding this? I did't found any restriction, just unavailability of AVGAS and PPR necessary.

Anyway some have some FAX number or email working??? I kee trying to send fax and different numbers but everytime that numbers does not work!

[IO540]

As I posted earlier, here

LGPZ is probably accessible, with PPR which could be long.

[mau mau]

Thank you IO540,
that website i knew but there is not informations regarding PPR for AG in public airport. There is only indications to aks about military airport or visit airport striclty restricted at foreign traffic.
I'm not able to find any fax number or email regarding Olympic or BP or where ask PPR. All the numbers I find does not work! why it is so difficult planing to GR....

[Jan Olieslagers]

I am afraid your own country is not an easier destination for foreigners... It is good to be reminded how grateful one should be to have a nice GA-friendly country just around the corner.

[mau mau]

Yes JAN,
but in my experience, also in not so good AG country friendly (like Italy), if you looking for something in Internet about fax numbers, telephone numbers....after one minute you got it. It's from this morning that I keep looking but only wrong numbers or wrong email address
My departure will be around 22 october so it shoud be enough time, even to ask permission to enter white house.

[IO540]

If you can speak Italian, Italy is easy, because most of the published data is wrong I went to Sardinia a few weeks back and it took best part of a week to check that nobody except LIEE has avgas.

So you hit the airport directories...

Starting here or here you get contact details of a few businesses at the airport in question, and you hit the phone (or fax, email if you have problems).

I have no idea if handling is mandatory but if so then you may as well use the handling agents listed. However, Olympic Handling (if present) is usually preferred.

[pa_24_260]

I made a short visit to LGKR for refuelling and a lunch break enroute from Santorini to Naples in August.
- 100 LL cost 2,28 €/L
- Taxes + handling are normally 70 €, but upon hearing that we would only stay for a few hours to have lunch, the handling agent considered it a technical stop, which cut the cost in two at 35€.
- Taxi into town was 10€.
- LGKR is not on the aopa-gr list of airports requiring PPR, but there is this NOTAM:

DUE TO PARKING CONSTRAINTS GENERAL AVIATION, BUSINESS AND MILITARY FLIGHTS MUST REQUEST WRITTEN APPRONAL BY LGKR AIRPORT AUTHORITIES 48 HOURS PRIOR TO ARRIVAL, STATING AIRCRAFT TYPE AND DATE-TIME OF ARRIVAL - DEPARTURE. STATE, MEDICAL AND FLIGHTS DECLARING EMERGENCY ARE EXCLUDED. E-MAIL:KAKKTL AT HCAA.GR FAX:[phone]

The web site I was using for NOTAMS this summer was broken, and I did not see the above until just before departure from Santorini while getting the briefing from homebriefing. I sent out an email with a PPR request to the e-mail address in the NOTAM, which bounced. We went anyway and it wasn't an issue.

[IO540]

That's correct; LGKR has a permanent PPR status and very occassionally notams a total closure (and bans it being filed as Alternate).

The NOTAM gives one PPR period (24 or 48hrs) but the official on the ground likes to make it 5 days. He told me this when I was there, saying it is necessary to "control apron capacity" (the apron being big enough to park the whole Greek and Turkish air forces ).

The LGKR NOTAM email address is duff. The one which last worked (after I faxed them, they replied by email) was kakkkt ( at ) hcaa.gr

Last time (June 2010) when I queried the last possible time to ask for the PPR, I got this:

Evening before will be accepted.
Please mind the restriction on 16-17.
Also it is preferable if you don't arrive on mondays,fridays or saturdays,
which are busy days.

Kind regards

H.C.A.A.
Officer on duty

LGKR is known to refuse a landing without PPR and they have done it to multiple planes on the same day.

One always needs to get NOTAMs but contacting the airport is a necessity anyway.

[mau mau]

Thank you for all your support guys, appreciated.
Feel free to ask me all you want regarding flights in Italy.

If you can speak Italian, Italy is easy, because most of the published data is wrong I went to Sardinia a few weeks back and it took best part of a week to check that nobody except LIEE has avgas.

Same for Airport LIEO, regarding refueling. No notams and handling that has confirmed "handling and fuel". But 100LL is no more available due problems between company that provide fuel and the airport authority. Lucky that I had enoght fuel to reach an other place where refueling. But you know: this is Sardinia....this is Italy but "you are not in Italy" .
If you go in LIEO, plan to refuel in Corsica, it's cheap and not so far.

[SPIROS]

PPR For Corfu airport

Hi there,
to people who have and are planing on visiting Corfu airport. The NOTAM has been implemented by me starting 5 years ago. It was necessary because Corfu airport is a "regulated" in terms of slots airport. This means that the space available for the "Turkish and Greek airforce" boils down to a small GA apron on the northen side of it, capable of accommodating at best eleven C172 sized a/c. The rest of the space is booked only for charter flights.
Since the capacity peak happens primarily during Mondays/Tuesdays/Fridays/Saturdays I strongly advice anybody wishing to land at Corfu to book well in advance if you are aiming for those days.
By the way I work for Corfu's airport ops.

[silverknapper]

It's a shame to say this but with threats of industrial action and disruption I'm currently avoiding Greece on all long trips where I need a nightstop. Not necessarily on the part of the airport but taxis, hotels etc etc. Am I right to be cautious I wonder?

[IO540]

Thank you SPIROS for visiting here. Much appreciated and should be very valuable

However I think the GA apron can hold a little more than 11 Cessnas...



The above pic is the view away from the "GA corner", and I have never seen that space used by anybody except this guy



or similar stuff, who I assume is the chief tax collector in Greece

With a bit of management, you could park all 20 Greek F16s there and all 100 Turkish F16s And all GA that will pay the 80 euro fee.

On one occassion I phoned up LGKR and was told by the HCAA office that they will have 60 jets parked there. The airport was closed to GA for a week. I cancelled my trip, but my girlfriend flew there anyway (airline) for a different purpose, and she never saw more than 2 jets parked there. Clearly somebody high up pulled some strings.

I respect the need to contact an airport before flying there, in general, but I have never seen that apron (in front of the disused old terminal) more than about 5% full.

I love Greece and will one day retire to near LGST, eating olives and kataifi, but you could do so much more to get people visiting your beautiful country, and most of it would be really easy work. Of all of Europe, you have by far the biggest economic / utility case for GA, yet the opportunity is being wasted. All you have is about 100-200 active GA pilots, plus 100-200 jets owned by extremely rich Greeks (now buying up London property to launder their undeclared Euro cash), and a lot of wasted mismanaged airports.

[SPIROS]

Reply

silverknapper, hotels, taxis, busses etc are pretty much business as usual, and hotels in Corfu have actually lowered their prices I hear as quite a few are becoming desperate for customers these days.

IO540, thanks for your comments. I suspect the period you are talking about was the OECD meeting, 2 summers back, when in fact we had pretty much that many jets, arriving at pretty much any time they wished (you can't really tell other country's ministers when they are allowed to land!).

Anyway, let us take a look at the apron:

So, the red square indicates the GA apron(props and rarely VLJs), the blue square is actually a helipad, which is used for, well, business jets (provided we don't have any helis) and the green square is aircraft stands (mainly for A320s and 737s). Bear in mind the space between the blue and green box has to be free, as its in front of the fire station.

Now, the only actual place we can park business jets is the helipad (no one wants a G5 infront of his Cessna on the GA apron!). Furthermore, on the days the charter traffic dies down (Wednesday/Thursday/Sunday) we can allow business jets, and park them anywhere, provided they're out of here when the traffic starts again! (demonstrated nicely in this photo by a bizjet in the green box, 22/8/2010 was a Sunday)

I'm not saying we couldn't park a load of Cessnas on the Helipad, but it would leave virtually no space for a bizjet, and we do get loads.

To put things straight, most of our problems arise from business jets landing in the middle of a Monday morning easyjet/thomson/thomascook rush, and having to have them use up an aircraft stand, forcing 757s to hold on a taxiway. But there too have been cases where we've had 10+ Pilatuses been ferried to Israel or somewhere, and right after 5 Italians each one with his own cessna, landing in-between 767s and 320s and, well you can see why this would be a problem!

So, generally speaking, if you want to fly to LGKR with any sort of prop a/c any day of the week shouldn't be a problem, but please file a request first, cause you never know what the apron situation might be. For example, we get a lot of GA ferry flights from the middle east these days, seems like people there are also getting affected by the economical crisis and returning planes...
Bizjets are a different story (btw, most bizjets we get are UK owned).

Hope that puts things into perspective!

[IO540]

Many thanks for the input, Spiros, but the evident reality is that most of the time (every time I have been there, or flew overhead) you have loads of room for GA.

Still, LGKR has refused inbound flights (refused permission to land, to an airborne aircraft) on a number of occassions I know of simply because the pilot had not obtained the 48hr prior permission, not because there was not actual parking space.

That is the problem. PPR for the fun of it. (We have that here in the UK too, but that doesn't make it right).

As I said, I have no issue with contacting an airport before flying there. One needs to verify avgas availability, etc, and for airports "down south" the published info is often incorrect. The Greek AIP is not online, and the info in the printed book is often wrong (like in September when both LGKR ATC and Olympic Handling gave me out of date opening times for LGKC; only the Notamed times can be relied on).

If you no longer insist on the 48hrs, and can clear an inbound flight if there is actual room, that is a big improvement.

It would not matter if there were other options. If e.g. Kefalonia had avgas, one would stop there instead.

An even better example of pointless PPR is Hania LGSA. It was 5 days when I went there, for both arrival and departure. It doesn't take 5 days to see if there is parking space, and why do they need 5 days' notice for departing? Last time I looked, LGSA was publishing "20 days PPR" for non-SX aircraft, but why does the reg matter? I know LGSA is shared with the military, but the PPR request does not ask passenger passport numbers so they can't be doing security checks on the people, which would be the only reason for the PPR. After I landed, the very friendly CAA official gave me his personal mobile phone # and said he can arrange whatever we need, but this is not what was published and enforced.

[Kyprianos Biris]

Closed to AG?? where can I find some information regarding this? I did't found any restriction, just unavailability of AVGAS and PPR necessary.

Anyway some have some FAX number or email working??? I kee trying to send fax and different numbers but everytime that numbers does not work!

mau mau AOPA Hellas INFOS lists LGPZ Aktio as PPR in para. 19 and in para. 25 you can find aerotel.pdf with contact details plus other links with contact details.

Aktio is accessible to GA as long as you prior notify them and as long as you fly in and out within CAA (Civil) operation hours, for this check para. 17.