How easy/hard will it be to fly to Cork?
Guest
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How easy/hard will it be to fly to Cork?
G'day!
Looking fwd to completing PPL by summer (just starting to tackly the cross-country's at present), and thinking about where I might fly off to once I am licensed.
Having some friends in Ireland, in particular near Cork, I am wondering how practical or unrealistic it will be for me, as a raw PPL, to consider a flight across the Irish Sea to Cork in a single such as a Warrior?
A mate of mine has family in IOM, so I am also thinking about a journey there at some stage.
Any thoughts / encouragement / comments appreciated.
Cheers,
Andy
Looking fwd to completing PPL by summer (just starting to tackly the cross-country's at present), and thinking about where I might fly off to once I am licensed.
Having some friends in Ireland, in particular near Cork, I am wondering how practical or unrealistic it will be for me, as a raw PPL, to consider a flight across the Irish Sea to Cork in a single such as a Warrior?
- Is this a reasonable goal?
- How many hours of safer / local flying should I aim to get under my belt prior to tackling such a flight?
- What's the safest way to get there in order to minimise risks such as fan-stop over water / ditching?
A mate of mine has family in IOM, so I am also thinking about a journey there at some stage.
Any thoughts / encouragement / comments appreciated.
Cheers,
Andy
Guest
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Cork should pose you no problems..been there a few times in a light single.
Guess from where you are best route would be Strumble VOR direct Cork - under the airway. I'd consider climbing as high as the weather and airspace will let me, I WOULD stay in radio contact with somebody all the way - best way to minimise risk if you have a fan stop is to go in a twin...but you can't for a while.
Just accept - if the fan stops, you will get very damp and the water is @#$%^& cold.
The flight will be quite easy - the risk is entirely up to you.
Isle of Man is easier - though probably more expensive to land.
Cross the coast at Wallasey talking to Liverpool and then call IOM approach (you got two radios in your bird?) for radar assist to get there...remember airfield is at sea level, VOR is five miles away and sits atop a huge hard lump that hurts aeroplanes.
Shortest water crossing to IOM would be up to Blackpool then turn left...add another, what, 30 - 40 minutes to your flight. What will that cost at South of England aircraft hire rates...will you pay the extra in aircraft hire time to give yourself a shorter water crossing (in case of fan stop).
You could argue that if the fan doesn't stop on your water crossing then taking a longer route was a waste of money....and if it does stop - you probably wont have to pay the bill anyway!!
------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!
Guess from where you are best route would be Strumble VOR direct Cork - under the airway. I'd consider climbing as high as the weather and airspace will let me, I WOULD stay in radio contact with somebody all the way - best way to minimise risk if you have a fan stop is to go in a twin...but you can't for a while.
Just accept - if the fan stops, you will get very damp and the water is @#$%^& cold.
The flight will be quite easy - the risk is entirely up to you.
Isle of Man is easier - though probably more expensive to land.
Cross the coast at Wallasey talking to Liverpool and then call IOM approach (you got two radios in your bird?) for radar assist to get there...remember airfield is at sea level, VOR is five miles away and sits atop a huge hard lump that hurts aeroplanes.
Shortest water crossing to IOM would be up to Blackpool then turn left...add another, what, 30 - 40 minutes to your flight. What will that cost at South of England aircraft hire rates...will you pay the extra in aircraft hire time to give yourself a shorter water crossing (in case of fan stop).
You could argue that if the fan doesn't stop on your water crossing then taking a longer route was a waste of money....and if it does stop - you probably wont have to pay the bill anyway!!
------------------
Hunting is bad!!
Support the right to arm Bears!!
Guest
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Andy,
If this turns up twice I have buggered up.
One of the problems with over water flights is the horizon is far less distinct than over land. What may be reasonable VFR over land becomes marginal over water (not in the legal sense, the vis is still the same, just looks different as the sky and water can merge)
I would recommend taking an instructor for the first time. Personally unless it is Gin Clear I go onto instruments once over the sea.
If this turns up twice I have buggered up.
One of the problems with over water flights is the horizon is far less distinct than over land. What may be reasonable VFR over land becomes marginal over water (not in the legal sense, the vis is still the same, just looks different as the sky and water can merge)
I would recommend taking an instructor for the first time. Personally unless it is Gin Clear I go onto instruments once over the sea.
Guest
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Andy,
I’m with New Bloke on this one: get a cross-water check-out with an instructor and brush up on your instrument skills before heading out. The ‘goldfish bowl’ effect he describes can be quite unnerving if you’re not accustomed to it.
I would add that even if the TAFs and actuals are excellent for departure and destination ADs, conditions in middle of the Irish Sea can be quite different. I’ve learnt from experience to expect the unexpected and be prepared to turn back if it turns to merd.
I would also suggest a raft and life jackets as the minimum survival equipment. Read up on ditching procedures, too.
However, don’t be daunted by all this. Ireland, with its uncluttered skies, is a superb place to fly.
HP
I’m with New Bloke on this one: get a cross-water check-out with an instructor and brush up on your instrument skills before heading out. The ‘goldfish bowl’ effect he describes can be quite unnerving if you’re not accustomed to it.
I would add that even if the TAFs and actuals are excellent for departure and destination ADs, conditions in middle of the Irish Sea can be quite different. I’ve learnt from experience to expect the unexpected and be prepared to turn back if it turns to merd.
I would also suggest a raft and life jackets as the minimum survival equipment. Read up on ditching procedures, too.
However, don’t be daunted by all this. Ireland, with its uncluttered skies, is a superb place to fly.
HP
Guest
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I have also been tempted by a trip across the Irish Sea to the land of my forefathers. Some more info on possible VFR routes at
http://www.higher.flyer.co.uk/html/eiwt.html
and I found a useful little book on flying in Ireland at the Elstree branch of Pooley's.
I would take a liferaft, or wear immersion suits. The engine doesn't know it's over water, but also doesn't know if the crossing is long or short. A military friend thinks I'm mad flying Dover-Cap Gris Nez with only life jackets.
New Bloke's point about the loss of horizon over the sea is a good one. You may find yourself in a blue bowl. You should be able to maintain S&L on instruments, but if concentrating on a scan will not be keeping a lookout outside the aircraft. Going with another pilot can help in this situation. The first time I crossed the channel in a light aircraft I went with another recently qualified pilot. He flew and logged the outward trip, I did the return (briefly using the instruments for the mid channel section), and it was a good trip for us both.
Anyway, hope you storm the PPL, do the Cork trip and tell us all about it here.
[This message has been edited by FNG (edited 17 January 2001).]
http://www.higher.flyer.co.uk/html/eiwt.html
and I found a useful little book on flying in Ireland at the Elstree branch of Pooley's.
I would take a liferaft, or wear immersion suits. The engine doesn't know it's over water, but also doesn't know if the crossing is long or short. A military friend thinks I'm mad flying Dover-Cap Gris Nez with only life jackets.
New Bloke's point about the loss of horizon over the sea is a good one. You may find yourself in a blue bowl. You should be able to maintain S&L on instruments, but if concentrating on a scan will not be keeping a lookout outside the aircraft. Going with another pilot can help in this situation. The first time I crossed the channel in a light aircraft I went with another recently qualified pilot. He flew and logged the outward trip, I did the return (briefly using the instruments for the mid channel section), and it was a good trip for us both.
Anyway, hope you storm the PPL, do the Cork trip and tell us all about it here.
[This message has been edited by FNG (edited 17 January 2001).]
Guest
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I did the trip to Cork in summer 2000. The weather for the trip was excellent, but it was certainly something I would not have done on my own after having just qualified. The main benefit of taking somebody with you, who also has a PPL, is sharing workload as well as cost. I loved every minute of the trip and learnt a lot from it. If you want anymore info you can email me at [email protected] and I will fill you in.
Guest
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Aussie Andy,
New Bloke is right. Remember a guy called J.F.K? Flying VFR over a large body of water can be VERY confusing even in good visibility, and don't even think about doing it at night until you get a lot of experience.
Bring an experienced pilot with you and you will be all right.
Good luck with the training!
New Bloke is right. Remember a guy called J.F.K? Flying VFR over a large body of water can be VERY confusing even in good visibility, and don't even think about doing it at night until you get a lot of experience.
Bring an experienced pilot with you and you will be all right.
Good luck with the training!
Guest
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Thanks everyone - lots of good advice there!
I think I will do the first trip with another more experienced pilot, as suggested by several folks.
So it's back to the PPL for now, with my goal clearly established!
Something to look forward to :-)
Andy
------------------
"Andy sang, Andy watched, Andy waited 'til his billy boiled..." (It was written for me!)
I think I will do the first trip with another more experienced pilot, as suggested by several folks.
So it's back to the PPL for now, with my goal clearly established!
Something to look forward to :-)
Andy
------------------
"Andy sang, Andy watched, Andy waited 'til his billy boiled..." (It was written for me!)
Guest
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The Boys from the Bush (Withybush that is) tell of a guy who did the crossing in an Aircamper. Apparently he posted a set of clean clothes to the B & b he'd booked over there and followed the ferry from Fishguard! At the end of his holiday our hero posted his grubby smalls back to the wife and followed the ferry from Roslaire. There is a nasty rumour that his first attempt failed as he tried to follow the Seacat but couldn't keep up 
[This message has been edited by Windy Militant (edited 18 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Windy Militant (edited 18 January 2001).]
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I regularly fly to the Emerald Isle in a 50+ year old,PFA,Vintage Taildragger with no electrics or instruments & a cruise speed of approx 75knts.
By now you are either thinking what a hero I am or more probably what a Richard Head I am,the latter being nearer to the truth.However I believe in minimising all risks possible in case of the fan stopping,leaving the only other unknown 'The Weather',New blokes comments being dead right.
Some simple precautions that I take are given below:-
-I always cross from Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire,this has two definate advantages.
1,The HSS Seacat runs several times daily across this exact route,I phone up on the day of departure & request sailing times,then I time my arrival overhead Holyhead to be 20 mins after the HSS has departed and if its not visual just head west & follow its wake,by doing this I overtake it at the halfway point(near to the FIR boundary or 'Liffy')
2,RAF Valley is positioned right next to Holyhead with those nice SAR bods along with there nice yellow Seakings.Due to appropriate radio freq's being in short supply apart from london info(124.75)which is not very good below 2000' I talk to Vally radar(134.35)when they are open and even when they are closed the SAR bods moniter the freq and will answer if you mither enough,if they don't give a blind call to 'RESCUE 122' (callsign) stating your intentions & this usually does the trick,failing this call them on the TWR freq(122.1).Once they are talking they will keep calling you to see how you are progressing up to 'LIFFY' where dublin(124.65) can take over.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WHO BETTER TO TALK TO !
Due to wieght/space limitations I cannot carry a liferaft,instead I dress appropriately wearing warm & bright clothing and wear a good regularly serviced lifejacket.I have also invested in a ELB(Emergency Locator Beacon) which transmits on both civil(121.5)& military(243.0)international distress freqs.
A MUST is to read the CAA Safety Sense leaflet nos.21A on 'DITCHING' & always file a VFR Flight Plan covered under leaflet nos.20. Another tip is to set your spare radio(box 2) or default setting to 121.5 as in a state of panic this will be the last thing you will remember,instead just press the button and scream!!!!!!!!!!
A good trip is to spend a week flying around Ireland,but obtain the 'FLY IN IRELAND' guide & a VFR chart,these are usually unlaminated & rip very easily so I laminated it myself with some sticky back plastic stuff,also polish up on your short field techniques as most fields are 500m max.
Finally depending on where you are flying to/from you will need to inform Special Branch & if you are in a PFA Permit type aircraft you must seek written approval from the 'Irish Aviation Authority' otherwise should a prang occur then insurance etc.. could prove interesting.
GOOD LUCK !
P.S. It's much easier to book on ryanair but no where near as much fun.!!!!!!!
By now you are either thinking what a hero I am or more probably what a Richard Head I am,the latter being nearer to the truth.However I believe in minimising all risks possible in case of the fan stopping,leaving the only other unknown 'The Weather',New blokes comments being dead right.
Some simple precautions that I take are given below:-
-I always cross from Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire,this has two definate advantages.
1,The HSS Seacat runs several times daily across this exact route,I phone up on the day of departure & request sailing times,then I time my arrival overhead Holyhead to be 20 mins after the HSS has departed and if its not visual just head west & follow its wake,by doing this I overtake it at the halfway point(near to the FIR boundary or 'Liffy')
2,RAF Valley is positioned right next to Holyhead with those nice SAR bods along with there nice yellow Seakings.Due to appropriate radio freq's being in short supply apart from london info(124.75)which is not very good below 2000' I talk to Vally radar(134.35)when they are open and even when they are closed the SAR bods moniter the freq and will answer if you mither enough,if they don't give a blind call to 'RESCUE 122' (callsign) stating your intentions & this usually does the trick,failing this call them on the TWR freq(122.1).Once they are talking they will keep calling you to see how you are progressing up to 'LIFFY' where dublin(124.65) can take over.
AT THE END OF THE DAY WHO BETTER TO TALK TO !
Due to wieght/space limitations I cannot carry a liferaft,instead I dress appropriately wearing warm & bright clothing and wear a good regularly serviced lifejacket.I have also invested in a ELB(Emergency Locator Beacon) which transmits on both civil(121.5)& military(243.0)international distress freqs.
A MUST is to read the CAA Safety Sense leaflet nos.21A on 'DITCHING' & always file a VFR Flight Plan covered under leaflet nos.20. Another tip is to set your spare radio(box 2) or default setting to 121.5 as in a state of panic this will be the last thing you will remember,instead just press the button and scream!!!!!!!!!!
A good trip is to spend a week flying around Ireland,but obtain the 'FLY IN IRELAND' guide & a VFR chart,these are usually unlaminated & rip very easily so I laminated it myself with some sticky back plastic stuff,also polish up on your short field techniques as most fields are 500m max.
Finally depending on where you are flying to/from you will need to inform Special Branch & if you are in a PFA Permit type aircraft you must seek written approval from the 'Irish Aviation Authority' otherwise should a prang occur then insurance etc.. could prove interesting.
GOOD LUCK !
P.S. It's much easier to book on ryanair but no where near as much fun.!!!!!!!
Guest
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Nimbus,
It’s available from Transair.
http://www.transair.co.uk/jepdoubles...yinireland.htm
HP
(Edited for web address)
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 20 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 20 January 2001).]
It’s available from Transair.
http://www.transair.co.uk/jepdoubles...yinireland.htm
HP
(Edited for web address)
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 20 January 2001).]
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 20 January 2001).]
Guest
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NIMBUS,
Horsepower was correct in saying that you can obtain them from Transair,however I believe that they are still selling the old 1996 edition,there has been an updated one produced since then (An ex-RAF Woodvale Chippie on the cover) of which I helped to compile.This can be published direct from AOPA at,
AOPA Ireland
Loughlinstown Road
Celbridge
Co.Kildare
Ireland
I think the chart mentioned previously can be purchased from there as well,but I would definately spend an hour laminating it.
If you are planing a trip for a few days,KILRUSH is definately worth a visit it has on-site 4 star self catering apartments available for use,and is ideally located as a base for touring,the guy who runs this is called Ian Valentine a Top Irish Geezza,more details and pictures are available in the new book.
Other places of must visit status are CLONBULLOGUE this is home to the Irish parachute club where you are guarenteed a warm welcome and some top notch cheep grub in there new clubhouse,it is only open at weekends and you MUST call up on the radio(128.55)with 10 minutes to run.
Also the ARAN ISLES are worth a visit if not for the scenary,then to experience a carrier style arrival/departure,but be very cautious!
GOOD LUCK ONCE AGAIN!!!
Horsepower was correct in saying that you can obtain them from Transair,however I believe that they are still selling the old 1996 edition,there has been an updated one produced since then (An ex-RAF Woodvale Chippie on the cover) of which I helped to compile.This can be published direct from AOPA at,
AOPA Ireland
Loughlinstown Road
Celbridge
Co.Kildare
Ireland
I think the chart mentioned previously can be purchased from there as well,but I would definately spend an hour laminating it.
If you are planing a trip for a few days,KILRUSH is definately worth a visit it has on-site 4 star self catering apartments available for use,and is ideally located as a base for touring,the guy who runs this is called Ian Valentine a Top Irish Geezza,more details and pictures are available in the new book.
Other places of must visit status are CLONBULLOGUE this is home to the Irish parachute club where you are guarenteed a warm welcome and some top notch cheep grub in there new clubhouse,it is only open at weekends and you MUST call up on the radio(128.55)with 10 minutes to run.
Also the ARAN ISLES are worth a visit if not for the scenary,then to experience a carrier style arrival/departure,but be very cautious!
GOOD LUCK ONCE AGAIN!!!
Guest
Posts: n/a
Thanks for the info, guys!
NegG,
Interesting that you helped to compile Fly-in-Ireland! I assume you are not involved with them any more!
That address is a very old one, and I guess you don't know about the sorry state of AOPA in Ireland now?
They are a very private group now. Not interested in new members and virtually impossible to contact! If you've got any contacts there still, maybe you could tell them to show a little interest in GA?
BTW, I met I.V before, and have to agree with you! I grew up about 4 miles from Kilrush, but I've done very little flying in Ireland. Moved to the U.S.A and got my licences, and 99% of my flying, over here.
Also, I think the occupation and interests listed in your profile are thought-provoking!
Guest
Posts: n/a
NIMBUS,
Unfortunately I've had no deelings with AOPA for approx. 18 mths,and that was the last known address that I had,however all is not lost I will ask some Irish friends of mine where you can now obtain the guide book!
Guess your jealous of the occupation(ah if only)
Unfortunately I've had no deelings with AOPA for approx. 18 mths,and that was the last known address that I had,however all is not lost I will ask some Irish friends of mine where you can now obtain the guide book!
Guess your jealous of the occupation(ah if only)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Nimbus,
I can find the latest edition and post it to you, if you wish—you can buy me a pint in exchange.
Agree with Negative ‘G’ on Kilrush—it’s a lovely little field.
AOPA Ireland? What’s that then?
HP
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 22 January 2001).]
I can find the latest edition and post it to you, if you wish—you can buy me a pint in exchange.
Agree with Negative ‘G’ on Kilrush—it’s a lovely little field.
AOPA Ireland? What’s that then?
HP
[This message has been edited by Horsepower (edited 22 January 2001).]
Guest
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I've just come back from visiting relatives in Limerick and would recommend a visit to Coonagh airfield. Very friendly people. A rather decent chap took me up for a quick circuit in one of their Rallye's to get the lie of the land. I'm planning on taking the Cub over this summer so all this advice is useful. Keep it coming
PS Coonagh are charging 70 punts / hour for the 150hp Rallye. That's about £60 sterling. A bargain by anybody's standards! There is a website but I don't know the address (I've only just got back!)
PS Coonagh are charging 70 punts / hour for the 150hp Rallye. That's about £60 sterling. A bargain by anybody's standards! There is a website but I don't know the address (I've only just got back!)
Guest
Posts: n/a
Horsepower,
Thanks!
I'll take you up on that offer if you don't mind!
Drop me an e.mail and I'll give you the address.
I'm in the USA at the moment, but I'll be in Ireland in a few weeks. You can send it to whichever address is easier.
Let me know where you are based. If you're in Ireland, arranging a pint will be easy!England? Well, I'm hoping to get a plane at Weston, and if you tell me where to land that can be arranged too!
Cheers!
PS. AOPA(Ireland) is a secret organization reputed to exist in the Emerald Isle. Best known for its low profile (in)activities, secret AGMs', and total lack of interest in GA!
[This message has been edited by NIMBUS (edited 23 January 2001).]
Thanks!
I'll take you up on that offer if you don't mind!
Drop me an e.mail and I'll give you the address.
I'm in the USA at the moment, but I'll be in Ireland in a few weeks. You can send it to whichever address is easier.
Let me know where you are based. If you're in Ireland, arranging a pint will be easy!England? Well, I'm hoping to get a plane at Weston, and if you tell me where to land that can be arranged too!
Cheers!
PS. AOPA(Ireland) is a secret organization reputed to exist in the Emerald Isle. Best known for its low profile (in)activities, secret AGMs', and total lack of interest in GA!
[This message has been edited by NIMBUS (edited 23 January 2001).]