Engine Problems - Forced landing Video
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Engine Problems - Forced landing Video
I'm not sure if this has been posted before but its a very interesting video.
BREMONT - Mayday
Yak in Lake district
BREMONT - Mayday
Yak in Lake district
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Fantastic video, although I am quite puzzled about his choice of field. Surely wouldn't the main field next to the farm be better instead of attempting to limp over the wall?
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well done to the pilot!!! great skills
Looks to me as though the forced landing was not well executed, the aircraft was too fast when the pilot polled it towards his chosen field, and he was left landing in his overshoot field.
Interesting that the AAIB report makes no mention of the execution of the forced landing. It would have been a simple matter to determine the facts, but the investigator either didn't know of the video or didn't bother to research it...
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Fantastic video, although I am quite puzzled about his choice of field. Surely wouldn't the main field next to the farm be better instead of attempting to limp over the wall?
He got the aircraft on the ground though under control, in a level attitude and in a location that made a forced landing survivable...which in principle is all one ever has to do...certainly I wouldn't criticise his execution of it.
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He did enough in a very high stress situation to walk away unharmed from the aeroplane. Furthermore no-one else got hurt either.
That's good enough for me.
Y'know, it sometimes worries me that I'm not a professional pilot, not a skygod, just an ordinary amateur PPL.
One day, God forbid, if something goes wrong and I react in anything but the perfect way, and I pull off anything but the perfect landing in a field next to a pub, it will be my turn to get criticised, in public, in detail!
Have a heart guys!
That's good enough for me.
Y'know, it sometimes worries me that I'm not a professional pilot, not a skygod, just an ordinary amateur PPL.
One day, God forbid, if something goes wrong and I react in anything but the perfect way, and I pull off anything but the perfect landing in a field next to a pub, it will be my turn to get criticised, in public, in detail!
Have a heart guys!
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True, the chances of any of us getting it 100% right are slim.. but on the other hand, it's worth being objective; no point in lauding the attempt and holding it up as an example *if* it wasn't particularly good one! As for the AAIB 'report', it isn't - it's just a pilot report to the AAIB.
Lots of questions though: How come the prop is windmilling if the engine is 'seized', did he attempt to lower the wheels, and did he clip the wall on the entry to the second field?
On a more philosophical note I was pondering: 20something miles away from a runway with zero oil pressure, do you a) climb, and hope you can get within gliding range before it all breaks, or b) decide you haven't got a hope, and attempt to make a more controlled field selection/landing with the aid of power.
Lots of questions though: How come the prop is windmilling if the engine is 'seized', did he attempt to lower the wheels, and did he clip the wall on the entry to the second field?
On a more philosophical note I was pondering: 20something miles away from a runway with zero oil pressure, do you a) climb, and hope you can get within gliding range before it all breaks, or b) decide you haven't got a hope, and attempt to make a more controlled field selection/landing with the aid of power.
Last edited by Mark1234; 11th Oct 2010 at 22:06.
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Mark1234,
The pilot involved (or possibly someone posing as him) posted on the flyer forum.
He explained that the engine seized and this broke the gear reduction gearbox, which allowed the prop to 'freewheel' windmill. ie, it was no longer connected to the engine via the gearbox.
Someone over there (perhaps the pilot, I've now forgotten) stated that it is a big no no in a Yak to drop the gear for a forced field landing. I think they stated that it posted too high a risk of the aircraft flipping over adn potential danger to the pilot because of the position of the cockpit. Field landings in a YAK are supposed to be gear up.
I've no idea how true either of these comments are...just passing them on, as they seem to tally with the video.
dp
The pilot involved (or possibly someone posing as him) posted on the flyer forum.
He explained that the engine seized and this broke the gear reduction gearbox, which allowed the prop to 'freewheel' windmill. ie, it was no longer connected to the engine via the gearbox.
Someone over there (perhaps the pilot, I've now forgotten) stated that it is a big no no in a Yak to drop the gear for a forced field landing. I think they stated that it posted too high a risk of the aircraft flipping over adn potential danger to the pilot because of the position of the cockpit. Field landings in a YAK are supposed to be gear up.
I've no idea how true either of these comments are...just passing them on, as they seem to tally with the video.
dp
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The gearbox break explains the windmilling - I was puzzled by that at first.
FWIW, I think the pilot did really well & I'm glad he's made the video available. After viewing it, I think I'd be heading for a field straight away - but that's only because I've been able to watch somebody else go through it.
It also makes me think that a FREDA check every 10 minutes probably isn't enough - need to at least scan the engine gauges every couple of mins I think.
FWIW, I think the pilot did really well & I'm glad he's made the video available. After viewing it, I think I'd be heading for a field straight away - but that's only because I've been able to watch somebody else go through it.
It also makes me think that a FREDA check every 10 minutes probably isn't enough - need to at least scan the engine gauges every couple of mins I think.
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Both the gearbox and leaving the wheels hidden make a lot of sense.. hadn't considered it would have a reduction drive, but I was wondering if it was a deliberate decision to leave the wheels, or if the wall had 'removed' them. Probably merit in leaving them hidden on most types unless you know the surface is 'good'.
Does prompt some thought tho. Not sure I'd post my efforts to be taken apart by us lot
Does prompt some thought tho. Not sure I'd post my efforts to be taken apart by us lot
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On a more philosophical note I was pondering: 20something miles away from a runway with zero oil pressure, do you ...
OK, the oil on the windscreen and the engine behaviour made it clear in due course in this case, but if it was, to start with at least, just a gauge indication?
This was a forced landing. The entire total criteria for success is "Did the pilot (and passengers if applicable) walk away ?" If the answer is yes than IMO you have fully accomplished the aim of the exercise.
Frontlefthampster. Have you executed a for real forced approach after a total engine failure ? If you have and you did better than this guy than I think it is appropriate to post critical comments regarding the handling skills of the YAK pilot.....If you have not been there than maybe you should think twice before posting......
Re the pilot decision making: He pointed the aircraft at what I believe was the nearest airport and alerted ATC. He modified his routing to keep the aircraft over landable terrrain and when the engine failed he set up the succesfull forced approach. I find it hard to see how he can have done much better
Re the gear up: Both the YAK and Nanchang pilot manuals specify a gear up landing because if the aircraft flips over the pilot will almost certainly be killed as the front cockpit is crushed into his head.
Bottom line: He kept his cool and flew the aircraft......a Good job in my opinion..... and yes I have personally experienced ( in a single engined aircraft) a total oil pressure loss which resulted in a forced approach.
Frontlefthampster. Have you executed a for real forced approach after a total engine failure ? If you have and you did better than this guy than I think it is appropriate to post critical comments regarding the handling skills of the YAK pilot.....If you have not been there than maybe you should think twice before posting......
Re the pilot decision making: He pointed the aircraft at what I believe was the nearest airport and alerted ATC. He modified his routing to keep the aircraft over landable terrrain and when the engine failed he set up the succesfull forced approach. I find it hard to see how he can have done much better
Re the gear up: Both the YAK and Nanchang pilot manuals specify a gear up landing because if the aircraft flips over the pilot will almost certainly be killed as the front cockpit is crushed into his head.
Bottom line: He kept his cool and flew the aircraft......a Good job in my opinion..... and yes I have personally experienced ( in a single engined aircraft) a total oil pressure loss which resulted in a forced approach.
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Big Pistons, thank you for asking, yes I have. And as a glider pilot I've had my fair share of field landings too.
There are significantly different expectations here. On the very rare occasions I fly SEP these days, I do so with the firm intention that if the engine fails, I will endeavour to land the aircraft undamaged in a field from which it can later be flown. I fly very defensively, to achieve this aim. I don't fly low in SEPs, I don't fly over built-up areas, and I don't fly over unlandable terrain. I accept the chance that a field which looks fine from height may turn out not to be, and some damage may result, but any worse than that and I was in the wrong place...
I'm more critical here of hsuman's comment. If he thinks that the video shows 'great skills', then his expectations need to be re-datumed...
I presume that the pilot concerned permitted his video to be posted on the web. That makes him fair game for any open-forum critique that comes his way, in my opinion.
Mark1234, the AAIB can, should, and sometimes do, investigate these things properly. And then sometimes they don't...
Perhaps we've all forgotten that years ago, engine failures were routine. In some areas of sport aviation, they still are. If the early aviators had had the approach to engine failure discussed in other posts here ('walk away is OK'), there wouldn't be any vintage aircraft...
There are significantly different expectations here. On the very rare occasions I fly SEP these days, I do so with the firm intention that if the engine fails, I will endeavour to land the aircraft undamaged in a field from which it can later be flown. I fly very defensively, to achieve this aim. I don't fly low in SEPs, I don't fly over built-up areas, and I don't fly over unlandable terrain. I accept the chance that a field which looks fine from height may turn out not to be, and some damage may result, but any worse than that and I was in the wrong place...
I'm more critical here of hsuman's comment. If he thinks that the video shows 'great skills', then his expectations need to be re-datumed...
I presume that the pilot concerned permitted his video to be posted on the web. That makes him fair game for any open-forum critique that comes his way, in my opinion.
Mark1234, the AAIB can, should, and sometimes do, investigate these things properly. And then sometimes they don't...
Perhaps we've all forgotten that years ago, engine failures were routine. In some areas of sport aviation, they still are. If the early aviators had had the approach to engine failure discussed in other posts here ('walk away is OK'), there wouldn't be any vintage aircraft...
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Outstanding
Have any of you experts criticising this gentleman actually carefully watched and listened to this video. He experienced oil pressure loss overhead Keswick in the Lake District. Mountain terrain, Carlisle airport 23 miles away. He rapidly and very calmly makes a series of decisions adjusts his plans and force lands in the very best place he can find. Look at the size of the fields as he comes up to them and the speed of approach. Look at the field he ends up in as he videos getting out and walking away, Flat, green then go back watch the clip again and look at the the terrain he had available for most of the clip. I would say outstanding decision making superbly handled from beginning to end and I would far rather fly with this gentleman than some of the experts present here. I might want to buy his mechanic some lockwire first though. (But he should have landed in that field not this one!-pathetic )
Dave
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Originally Posted by Gertrude the Wombat
Would that depend at all on whether you know you've got zero oil pressure or you only know the oil pressure gauge us reading zero? Do oil pressure gauges ever fail? - shame to write off an aircraft and hurt the inhabitants for a gauge failure.
OK, the oil on the windscreen and the engine behaviour made it clear in due course in this case, but if it was, to start with at least, just a gauge indication?
OK, the oil on the windscreen and the engine behaviour made it clear in due course in this case, but if it was, to start with at least, just a gauge indication?
I'm afraid I'm with frontlefthamster however, Yes, he did a good job, all ended well, tough situation - I suspect a yak glides like a brick. Many things done well, and to be learned from/tucked away for future use, kudos to the guy. But that doesn't mean it's the perfect example, and that there aren't other things to be considered.
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He walked away, so in my book he wins - well done as far as I'm concerned.
Also (although I think the Yak has quite a low power-off stall speed), it makes me very glad that I fly something with flaps !
FF
Also (although I think the Yak has quite a low power-off stall speed), it makes me very glad that I fly something with flaps !
FF
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Perhaps we've all forgotten that years ago, engine failures were routine. In some areas of sport aviation, they still are. If the early aviators had had the approach to engine failure discussed in other posts here ('walk away is OK'), there wouldn't be any vintage aircraft...
Considering that he was correctly landing with the gear up the aircraft was always going to be badly damaged and the deceleration was inevitably pretty brutal as it dug into the ground. It's not clear from the video whether he actually strikes the wall or not but I doubt if doing anything differently would have changed the outcome much. I still think overall he did a pretty good job.
