Log book fraud anyone??
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AC-DC
Reporting that guy is not policing the world, but could be preserving it!
People like him are part of the reason it is getting so difficult (and expensive!) for private flying! There are enough reasons for the General Public wanting to ban 'little planes' as it is. Why help them?
Help yourself (assuming you are actually a pilot!) and the rest of us...!
Reporting that guy is not policing the world, but could be preserving it!
People like him are part of the reason it is getting so difficult (and expensive!) for private flying! There are enough reasons for the General Public wanting to ban 'little planes' as it is. Why help them?
Help yourself (assuming you are actually a pilot!) and the rest of us...!
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good points whirly bird,
like you say, no ones actually suggesting
fiddling the hours & top marks to nimbus for pointing out the guy that was,
its all common sense really, a good instructor can spot a dodgy P1 at 20 paces,
so much sky, so little time :-(
like you say, no ones actually suggesting
fiddling the hours & top marks to nimbus for pointing out the guy that was,
its all common sense really, a good instructor can spot a dodgy P1 at 20 paces,
so much sky, so little time :-(
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It happens. We all know it does. I knew a guy who needed twin time. after a three month mysterious absence he popped up with 500 hours in the multi engine column of his logbook. I didn't have to report him as his logbook was 'borrowed' and then returned with the offending pages torn out.
AC DC. If what you say about this instructor is true do something about it before he or one of his students kills someone. If you don't, may it be on your conscience. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for these sort of people.
(Dimantles soap box, departs stage left)
AC DC. If what you say about this instructor is true do something about it before he or one of his students kills someone. If you don't, may it be on your conscience. Sorry, but I have no sympathy for these sort of people.
(Dimantles soap box, departs stage left)
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I know that you are all in the right and I am in the wrong! But years ago I opened the mouth and it was me who paid the price. No more!
If he was the only one who does it than it could solve a problem, but we all know that this is not the case.
I heared of an FAA examiner (IR & ommercial) who took back hands, cought and just lost his paperwork. No inside time and no fine.
[This message has been edited by AC-DC (edited 10 October 2000).]
If he was the only one who does it than it could solve a problem, but we all know that this is not the case.
I heared of an FAA examiner (IR & ommercial) who took back hands, cought and just lost his paperwork. No inside time and no fine.
[This message has been edited by AC-DC (edited 10 October 2000).]
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I think there is a big difference between PPL students scratching the odd 5 minutes here and there and someone apparently clocking up 500 hours in 3 months. In my experience, it is easy to add minutes but much harder to add hours. I think synchronising with the aircraft logs are the key to this. But as someone has already said, how do you check so many?
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Before finding gainful(ish) employment, I thought that it would be a good idea to go to the States and get some cheap twin flying done to beef up my multi time in my log book.I rang a place that had the cheapest time, advertised in a well known flying periodical, and had a contact in the UK. The chap in the UK suggested to me that if I and 2 others bought 50 hours each, we could all come back with 150 hours each in our log books. I was staggered by this and fortunately was offered the job I wanted before I dug myself a very big hole.
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DogsBolx
If it makes you feel any easier, the FAA are aware of this type of abuse. I was specifically given a pre-emptiove warning a few years ago in LA when converting my CAA licence, in the company of a friend who was laso out there.
At the time we were both a little miffed [becuase we had no intention of transgressing], but your posting makes me feel a little better about their stance, which I thought was unjustified at the time.
If it makes you feel any easier, the FAA are aware of this type of abuse. I was specifically given a pre-emptiove warning a few years ago in LA when converting my CAA licence, in the company of a friend who was laso out there.
At the time we were both a little miffed [becuase we had no intention of transgressing], but your posting makes me feel a little better about their stance, which I thought was unjustified at the time.
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It has been known for the CAA to call schools in the USA to check up on hours which may be suspicious (and they have caught people out).
I did all the hours in my log book but one month I did a couple of hundred hours, and I thought the CAA would query it. As I actually HAD done the hours, I got the school I hired from to not only stamp my log book to say that was correct but also to provide a letter on headed paper stating the hours I had done were correct.
It would be wise for others to do this, just in case any corroborating evidence should ever go missing and later the CAA query it.
I did all the hours in my log book but one month I did a couple of hundred hours, and I thought the CAA would query it. As I actually HAD done the hours, I got the school I hired from to not only stamp my log book to say that was correct but also to provide a letter on headed paper stating the hours I had done were correct.
It would be wise for others to do this, just in case any corroborating evidence should ever go missing and later the CAA query it.
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Jasesg and DogsBolx.
To the best of my knowledge the FAA allows to log your hours as ‘Non Flying Pilot’ as P1 hours, therefore they do not brake any rules or regulations.
Dogbolex.
Is the US school with the UK contact is the one that advertise in red as ‘Definitely – The Best Deal Ever’?
Whirlybird.
Point taken. Do you come on the 21 to Duxford? We can talk. Still, I don’t like to harm people.
To the best of my knowledge the FAA allows to log your hours as ‘Non Flying Pilot’ as P1 hours, therefore they do not brake any rules or regulations.
Dogbolex.
Is the US school with the UK contact is the one that advertise in red as ‘Definitely – The Best Deal Ever’?
Whirlybird.
Point taken. Do you come on the 21 to Duxford? We can talk. Still, I don’t like to harm people.
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While on the subject of log book fraud, has anyone read the article in the "I Learned About Flying From That" series in "Pilot", February 2000? It's a bit long, so I'll have to paraphrase it somewhat:
The author was crop spraying in Africa in the 1960s, and needed a replacement pilot in a hurry.
"After we had contacted those pilots we knew...and drew blanks, the name J Jackson...appeared. He had been on our list of applicants for some time, for two years running in fact. No-one had heard of him, but log book extracts and a photocopy of his pilot's licence and type endorsements were on file. He had logged well over 2,000 hours, and had flown everything, from single to four-engined aircraft. He had even completed a season of crop-spraying in Australia, so his application said."
'Jacko' is hired by phone. He arrives, and emphasises that he will require type familiarisation, probably a bit longer than normal, as he is slow to get the hang of a new type of aircraft. He seems to be OK, though is nicknamed 'Captain Grasshopper', for obvious reasons. The author decides to have a look at his performance first hand. The next day he stands at the side of the field which Jacko is treating. There is a 20 foot heap of earth, which they are all used to avoiding, but this time Jacko misjudges it, and he hits the bank and crashes. He is rescued by his colleagues, taken to hospital with a broken jaw; then he completes an accident repoort for the insurers and flies back to Heathrow.
"That, as far as we were concerned, was the end of the matter. Lloyds acknowledged the receipt of claim. They would be in touch in due course...We were more than surprised to receive a quick response.
Shorn of niceties, their letter of denial said that J Jackson, a bus driver with London Transport, had been arrested soon after his return to the UK. He was charged with driving his bus, unauthorised, to Heathrow, where he abandoned it and used the day's takings to pay for his air fare. Mr Jackson's total flying experience came to 20 hours tuition at a local flying club. His licence and log book entries were forgeries."
Whirly
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To fly is human, to hover, divine.
The author was crop spraying in Africa in the 1960s, and needed a replacement pilot in a hurry.
"After we had contacted those pilots we knew...and drew blanks, the name J Jackson...appeared. He had been on our list of applicants for some time, for two years running in fact. No-one had heard of him, but log book extracts and a photocopy of his pilot's licence and type endorsements were on file. He had logged well over 2,000 hours, and had flown everything, from single to four-engined aircraft. He had even completed a season of crop-spraying in Australia, so his application said."
'Jacko' is hired by phone. He arrives, and emphasises that he will require type familiarisation, probably a bit longer than normal, as he is slow to get the hang of a new type of aircraft. He seems to be OK, though is nicknamed 'Captain Grasshopper', for obvious reasons. The author decides to have a look at his performance first hand. The next day he stands at the side of the field which Jacko is treating. There is a 20 foot heap of earth, which they are all used to avoiding, but this time Jacko misjudges it, and he hits the bank and crashes. He is rescued by his colleagues, taken to hospital with a broken jaw; then he completes an accident repoort for the insurers and flies back to Heathrow.
"That, as far as we were concerned, was the end of the matter. Lloyds acknowledged the receipt of claim. They would be in touch in due course...We were more than surprised to receive a quick response.
Shorn of niceties, their letter of denial said that J Jackson, a bus driver with London Transport, had been arrested soon after his return to the UK. He was charged with driving his bus, unauthorised, to Heathrow, where he abandoned it and used the day's takings to pay for his air fare. Mr Jackson's total flying experience came to 20 hours tuition at a local flying club. His licence and log book entries were forgeries."
Whirly
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To fly is human, to hover, divine.
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AC-DC,
I don't think the concept of ‘Non Flying Pilot’, 'P1, P2', etc., exists over here.
PIC time is logged whenever you are 'sole manipulator of the controls', or if you are flying as Instructor with a student (ie. unlicenced pilot!) The 'Non Flying Pilot' bit is SIC (Second in Command) and only applies for aircraft not certified for single-pilot operation.
Two PPL's, etc., who jointly rent an aircraft to save money are breaking the rules if both log the time as PIC. Lots of people do it, yes, but that just means lots of people are breaking the rules!
I don't think the concept of ‘Non Flying Pilot’, 'P1, P2', etc., exists over here.
PIC time is logged whenever you are 'sole manipulator of the controls', or if you are flying as Instructor with a student (ie. unlicenced pilot!) The 'Non Flying Pilot' bit is SIC (Second in Command) and only applies for aircraft not certified for single-pilot operation.
Two PPL's, etc., who jointly rent an aircraft to save money are breaking the rules if both log the time as PIC. Lots of people do it, yes, but that just means lots of people are breaking the rules!
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AC-DC
An interesting ambiguity crosses my mind.
If operating on the priviliges of a converted CAA licence, isn't it the formalities of the CAA licence that would apply?
I've always regarded my FAA Airman's Certificate that way and never flown VFR on top or done any of the other things that FAA PPLs can do over and above CAA PPLS [no pun intended] Anyway, VFR on top scares me as a concept!
An interesting ambiguity crosses my mind.
If operating on the priviliges of a converted CAA licence, isn't it the formalities of the CAA licence that would apply?
I've always regarded my FAA Airman's Certificate that way and never flown VFR on top or done any of the other things that FAA PPLs can do over and above CAA PPLS [no pun intended] Anyway, VFR on top scares me as a concept!
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Nimbus – Thanks. I always thought that it is legal. To the best of my knowledge the US/UK school that advertise in red suggests this route.
JamesG – If you fly a converted CAA to FAA than all CAA rules apply, it says so on the FAA certificate. Because I have never checked it I follow the safe route. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t such a think as VFR on Top in Europe. VFR means that you must be in sight of the ground, however, it doesn’t state that you must see it all the time, BKN cloud and you are still in sight. Still, if you are not IMC/IR don’t try it. Clouds can be very unfriendly and the hills below made of hard stuff.
JamesG – If you fly a converted CAA to FAA than all CAA rules apply, it says so on the FAA certificate. Because I have never checked it I follow the safe route. To the best of my knowledge there isn’t such a think as VFR on Top in Europe. VFR means that you must be in sight of the ground, however, it doesn’t state that you must see it all the time, BKN cloud and you are still in sight. Still, if you are not IMC/IR don’t try it. Clouds can be very unfriendly and the hills below made of hard stuff.
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If ANYBODY knows of anyone falsifying their logbook, or otherwise cheating their way into a job that entails looking after and preserving the lives of innocent travellers (self loading freight), without the experience and ability needed, you MUST tell the appropriate authorities immediately. We must all, as responsible people, rid the industry of this sort of lowlife! To the people who do cheat, I really hope that your own loved ones never get the 'chance' to fly with you. Dont cheat, borrow money and pay for hours like the rest of us. It is better to be a bankrupt pilot with the best seat in the house than a lowlife murderer!
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AS far as flying VFR on top goes - isn't this permitted to basic PPLs under JAR? I've been informed more than once that it's legal in some European countries (e.g. France) but not in the UK. If the ban on VFR on top is a restriction imposed only by the UK CAA, would it still apply with an FAA certificate issued on the basis of a JAA licence?
Now I think I've confused myself.
Now I think I've confused myself.
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Beagler,
Just because someone lands full flap in gusty conditions doesn't mean he is dodgy, this is the way I was taught in cessnas with manual flap handles, and if there is EVER an aircraft to reduce flap on THAT is the one - the main thing if you fly this way is to hold the higher speed - then when you chop the power the extra drag puts you on the ground faster.
(yes I am Airline ATPL, but also flying light a/c from C150s to DH82a)
Just because someone lands full flap in gusty conditions doesn't mean he is dodgy, this is the way I was taught in cessnas with manual flap handles, and if there is EVER an aircraft to reduce flap on THAT is the one - the main thing if you fly this way is to hold the higher speed - then when you chop the power the extra drag puts you on the ground faster.
(yes I am Airline ATPL, but also flying light a/c from C150s to DH82a)
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Neg. Charlie,
As far as I know, any FAA licence issued on the basis of a CAA, JAA, etc., licence is subject to any restriction or conditions on the original licence. The FAA privilages only apply when operating an FAA registered A/C (i.e, with an 'N' no.!)
If flying in the US, in a US A/C, FAA PPL's can fly night VFR, but if the PPL is based on an overseas licence, which does not allow night VFR, then you can't.
As far as I know, any FAA licence issued on the basis of a CAA, JAA, etc., licence is subject to any restriction or conditions on the original licence. The FAA privilages only apply when operating an FAA registered A/C (i.e, with an 'N' no.!)
If flying in the US, in a US A/C, FAA PPL's can fly night VFR, but if the PPL is based on an overseas licence, which does not allow night VFR, then you can't.