IMC Rating - Latest Update
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Why do you think you needed to renew yours? An IMCR never expires. You just need the 25m test flight, or a renewal based on an ICAO IR (+IPC if FAA), to exercise its privileges.
I wonder if this was clarified at the said meeting?
I agree that IMCR+EIR would be pretty good, if flying into southern Europe in the summer.
I wonder if this was clarified at the said meeting?
I agree that IMCR+EIR would be pretty good, if flying into southern Europe in the summer.
Look, the agreement in principal for grandfathering has only just been confirmed, so you can't expect every last comma and detail to have been thrashed out yet....
No, an ICAO IR is not sufficient for an IMCR. Nowadays it must be an IR on SPAs, not a multi-pilot IR. Specific details are in LASORS.
IMCRs become invalid after 25 months if not revalidated. Renewal criteria are described in LASORS.
FCL.008 has failed in several areas. It has neither provided the solution promised by Sivel at the CAA/EASA meeting in Kingsway, neither does it meet the assurance which Goudou gave to the European Parliament. You can expect AOPA to work on both these points during the NPA production period, of that you may rest assured.
No, an ICAO IR is not sufficient for an IMCR. Nowadays it must be an IR on SPAs, not a multi-pilot IR. Specific details are in LASORS.
IMCRs become invalid after 25 months if not revalidated. Renewal criteria are described in LASORS.
FCL.008 has failed in several areas. It has neither provided the solution promised by Sivel at the CAA/EASA meeting in Kingsway, neither does it meet the assurance which Goudou gave to the European Parliament. You can expect AOPA to work on both these points during the NPA production period, of that you may rest assured.
Well it's certainly a step in the right direction; I'm glad but unsurprised to see that Cliff Whittaker was along for CAA - I've had a lot of dealings with him over the years and he has been unwaveringly pragmatic, supportive and sensible in his dealings with all light aviation issues, without ever once doing anything that caused significant problems later for CAA either.
I'm going to make educated guess here as to how it'll work out:
(1) Grandfather rights for existing UK IMC holders from 2012.
(2) Creation of a simplified SEP IR under EASA from about 2013, which looks just different enough from IMC that face is saved in Brussels.
(3) Some deal to allow UK IMC holders transfer to SEP IR privileges will start to appear about 2014.
(4) From around 2016 the UK IMC will slowly disappear into the history books as the EASA SEP IR starts to become workable across Europe and
Well, we'll see anyhow.
G
I'm going to make educated guess here as to how it'll work out:
(1) Grandfather rights for existing UK IMC holders from 2012.
(2) Creation of a simplified SEP IR under EASA from about 2013, which looks just different enough from IMC that face is saved in Brussels.
(3) Some deal to allow UK IMC holders transfer to SEP IR privileges will start to appear about 2014.
(4) From around 2016 the UK IMC will slowly disappear into the history books as the EASA SEP IR starts to become workable across Europe and
Well, we'll see anyhow.
G
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1) Grandfather rights for existing UK IMC holders from 2012.
(2) Creation of a simplified SEP IR under EASA from about 2013, which looks just different enough from IMC that face is saved in Brussels.
(3) Some deal to allow UK IMC holders transfer to SEP IR privileges will start to appear about 2014.
(4) From around 2016 the UK IMC will slowly disappear into the history books as the EASA SEP IR starts to become workable across Europe and
(2) Creation of a simplified SEP IR under EASA from about 2013, which looks just different enough from IMC that face is saved in Brussels.
(3) Some deal to allow UK IMC holders transfer to SEP IR privileges will start to appear about 2014.
(4) From around 2016 the UK IMC will slowly disappear into the history books as the EASA SEP IR starts to become workable across Europe and
I very much hope you are right as the ideal would have been an FAA style lower airways IR for Europe.
I have a number of issues and concerns.
The IMCR will not be retained in EASA eyes 2012 its gone.
Ok they say those who had it can carry on but the rating is effectively dead as no new pilots can get an IMCR.
My problem with this is partly a grave mistrust of EASA and its intentions! (smiles tea and biscuits and reassuring burps which are just the hot air )
But why get rid of or do anything at all regarding the IMCR if EASA have any serious intentions of offering a PPL IR?
Surley if they were serious EASA would have kept the status quo until the PPL IR was in shape.
They then would have offered allowances for UK IMCR pilots to convert to the PPL IR after that the IMCR would dwindle away.
It all very well Grandfather righting but you cannot grandfather right back to a Euro PPL IR from a rating which no longer exists in EASA eyes.
When we discussed all this a year ago I expressed my concerns about the IMCR being used as a Red Herring to divert attention away from a Euro PPL IR.
That was the goal we should have gone for.
All we have achieved is giving EASA a way out of both ratings.
I would be very surprised if a new PPL IR which is much different to an existing IR ever comes out of EASA. They may trim a scrap give it a name but in reality nothing will change for the better.
I see nothing in this allowance regarding the IMCR to applaud or cheer its a dead duck with an ominous smell. I await to be proved wrong and would rejoice if I am.
I really hope you are right
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 7th Oct 2010 at 11:32.
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I wish I could share Genghis optmism. What he describes sounds like a dream outcome.
If all that happens is grandfathering rights, then the IMCR will die off very quickly. With fewer people training for the IMCR, we will see fewer and fewer aircraft maintained to IFR standards. It's hard to justify a large repair expense, if a smaller and smaller percentage of your group members are instrument capable.
With fewer aircraft instrument capable, fewer people will revalidate their IMCR...a viscious circle.
Soon you will find yourselves in the same position as the rest of Europe... I would like to get an IR, but there are very very few aircraft available for private hire, or groups, which are legal for IFR flight, and even fewer that are well equipped.
If all that happens is grandfathering rights, then the IMCR will die off very quickly. With fewer people training for the IMCR, we will see fewer and fewer aircraft maintained to IFR standards. It's hard to justify a large repair expense, if a smaller and smaller percentage of your group members are instrument capable.
With fewer aircraft instrument capable, fewer people will revalidate their IMCR...a viscious circle.
Soon you will find yourselves in the same position as the rest of Europe... I would like to get an IR, but there are very very few aircraft available for private hire, or groups, which are legal for IFR flight, and even fewer that are well equipped.
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I am puzzled by what all this means. On the face of it it seems to be a much better result than could have been hoped for and I hope it means what it says.
The IMCR does not fit anywhere into the current proposed Part FCL. It is not a rating issued under JAR nor is it a rating associated with the NPPL and even if it were there is no comparable EASA rating and the regulations assume that national ratings are mirrored by similar EASA ratings.
So, we now seem to have a concesssion which is wholy contradictory of the whole EASA/Part FCL regulations ethos. I do not see how the IMCR can be grandfathered under the current Part FCL proposal and they would have to be amended to allow this to happen, as rules would in effect be needed to enable NAAs to grant their own national ratings. This would have to be sufficiently generic to be applied EU wide, as I doubt that singling out the UK for special treatment would be considered acceptable.
I do wonder whether this concession is the start of a face saving exercise which will see the Part FCL draft withrawn for a rewrite. May they even be anticipating being sent away by the Commission to try again? What ever we think of the parentage of some members of EASA they and the Commission cannot be deaf to the rising clamour of protest, especially now from the US at the impact of the proposals on the US economy. When phrases such as “a smokescreen for political chauvinism.” and "potential regulatory and trade consequences" start to be used by the US the euorocrats and politicians are going to start to take notice. The last thing anyone will want in the midst of a global recession will be the erection of trade barriers between Europe and the US.
The IMCR does not fit anywhere into the current proposed Part FCL. It is not a rating issued under JAR nor is it a rating associated with the NPPL and even if it were there is no comparable EASA rating and the regulations assume that national ratings are mirrored by similar EASA ratings.
So, we now seem to have a concesssion which is wholy contradictory of the whole EASA/Part FCL regulations ethos. I do not see how the IMCR can be grandfathered under the current Part FCL proposal and they would have to be amended to allow this to happen, as rules would in effect be needed to enable NAAs to grant their own national ratings. This would have to be sufficiently generic to be applied EU wide, as I doubt that singling out the UK for special treatment would be considered acceptable.
I do wonder whether this concession is the start of a face saving exercise which will see the Part FCL draft withrawn for a rewrite. May they even be anticipating being sent away by the Commission to try again? What ever we think of the parentage of some members of EASA they and the Commission cannot be deaf to the rising clamour of protest, especially now from the US at the impact of the proposals on the US economy. When phrases such as “a smokescreen for political chauvinism.” and "potential regulatory and trade consequences" start to be used by the US the euorocrats and politicians are going to start to take notice. The last thing anyone will want in the midst of a global recession will be the erection of trade barriers between Europe and the US.
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Indeed, especially with the EU being close to a political meltdown (with Germany having just bought Greece to keep it together for a bit longer, etc).
EASA is carrying on like nothing was happening.
Dublinpilot makes a very good point regarding the demise of IFR capability among aircraft other than those owned by sole IR-rated owners or the few all-IR syndicates. This is bad news**, which will incidentally also undermine the demand for GPS approaches (which are themselves struggling to be relevant to GA because most places whey they are really needed there is no ATC, but ATC is mandatory for any instrument approach).
** Somebody will be around any moment saying that IFR GA is irrelevant and that GA can move en masse to farm strips. I don't think so....
EASA is carrying on like nothing was happening.
Dublinpilot makes a very good point regarding the demise of IFR capability among aircraft other than those owned by sole IR-rated owners or the few all-IR syndicates. This is bad news**, which will incidentally also undermine the demand for GPS approaches (which are themselves struggling to be relevant to GA because most places whey they are really needed there is no ATC, but ATC is mandatory for any instrument approach).
** Somebody will be around any moment saying that IFR GA is irrelevant and that GA can move en masse to farm strips. I don't think so....
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There is an irony in the EU advocating the harmonisation of licensing rules across Europe as being a good thing and at the same time erecting a barrier to the movement of pilots across frontiers from outside the EU whilst adopting a stance which treats third country licences as so inferior that they are not worthy of being easily converted to an EASA licence.
These positions are mutually inconsistent and smack of the worst sort of protectionism. I suspect that many more people will in due course protest as the damaging consequences of these proposals become clearer and as it becomes apparent that many more current commercial and other operations are affected in a way which has neither been forseen or intended. Although this debate has to a large extent be conducted in terms of "N" registered pilots and aircraft I am sure that many other non EU countries will be affected by these regulations. The effect on non EU European countries such as Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, for example, is not clear.
These positions are mutually inconsistent and smack of the worst sort of protectionism. I suspect that many more people will in due course protest as the damaging consequences of these proposals become clearer and as it becomes apparent that many more current commercial and other operations are affected in a way which has neither been forseen or intended. Although this debate has to a large extent be conducted in terms of "N" registered pilots and aircraft I am sure that many other non EU countries will be affected by these regulations. The effect on non EU European countries such as Switzerland, Iceland, Norway, for example, is not clear.
current / lapsed ?
apologies if I've missed this along the way but will it only apply if the IMC is still currrent; i.e can a lapsed IMC be re-instated ok or should it be renewed asap (obvious answer I know is to renew asap in any case but just wondered if EASA rule will covers both lapsed & current IMC's)
many mysteries abound the land of the easa bird
does sound promising though, common sense may even prevail in the end
many mysteries abound the land of the easa bird
does sound promising though, common sense may even prevail in the end
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Old Timer
These proposals are not due until 2012 if ever as nothing is set in concrete YET! there would be no point in renewing your IMCR unless you need to yet.
I would renew nearer that date so that it is current if EASA hasnt been booted to where it deserves to be booted before then! just as a precaution as God knows what they will do.
Pace
These proposals are not due until 2012 if ever as nothing is set in concrete YET! there would be no point in renewing your IMCR unless you need to yet.
I would renew nearer that date so that it is current if EASA hasnt been booted to where it deserves to be booted before then! just as a precaution as God knows what they will do.
Pace
2012
Ahh - I see the EASA logic now, 2012 coincides with the end of the mayan calender & 'alleged' end of everything 
the easa bird is a very strange bird indeed, perhaps it might even become extinct ! (very unlikley) - I vote to bring back common sense......but common sense has gone out of the window forever I fear these days.
the easa bird is a very strange bird indeed, perhaps it might even become extinct ! (very unlikley) - I vote to bring back common sense......but common sense has gone out of the window forever I fear these days.
