MEPR - Seneca Advice
Join Date: May 2001
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Are those prices plus VAT - always worth not forgetting.
A quick check of the internet suggest you you could do the same course with all fees in an almsot new DA42 for £3K or an Aztruk for £4K - both considerably better aircraft.
I would not recommend the 42 unless you are only going to fly 42s.
I think this boils down to why you are doing an MEP. If you are going to rent the same aircraft afterwards (because that is all that is conveniently available) or because it is the only convenient aircraft at your local school then in my book convenience will win every time. I would not be driving an hour each way to fly a different aircraft - but others might.
If on the other hand your local airport has better twins to rent, and that is what you intend to do, you should train on the aircraft you intend to rent if at all possible.
6 hours is not a lot of time behind the wheel of a proper twin (like the Aztec). You will need time to be comfortable so you are far better staying with what you know for the first twenty hours or so.
You mention there is not a lot around in terms of other Senecas. Do you mean other twins as well or is there some reason you want to train on a Seneca?
In summary I dont think they are bargain basement prices but they are a little cheaper than most which doubtless reflects the aircraft being used.
However am afraid when it comes to fly twins forget the odd hundred here or there, you need to count in thousands.
A quick check of the internet suggest you you could do the same course with all fees in an almsot new DA42 for £3K or an Aztruk for £4K - both considerably better aircraft.
I would not recommend the 42 unless you are only going to fly 42s.
I think this boils down to why you are doing an MEP. If you are going to rent the same aircraft afterwards (because that is all that is conveniently available) or because it is the only convenient aircraft at your local school then in my book convenience will win every time. I would not be driving an hour each way to fly a different aircraft - but others might.
If on the other hand your local airport has better twins to rent, and that is what you intend to do, you should train on the aircraft you intend to rent if at all possible.
6 hours is not a lot of time behind the wheel of a proper twin (like the Aztec). You will need time to be comfortable so you are far better staying with what you know for the first twenty hours or so.
You mention there is not a lot around in terms of other Senecas. Do you mean other twins as well or is there some reason you want to train on a Seneca?
In summary I dont think they are bargain basement prices but they are a little cheaper than most which doubtless reflects the aircraft being used.
However am afraid when it comes to fly twins forget the odd hundred here or there, you need to count in thousands.
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Join Date: Jun 2006
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Hi Fuji,
Price do include VAT.
I am looking to fly the Seneca as I have flown alot of the PA28 family including the arrow, so to be honest I am going for more the home sweet home feel.
There is a Duchess at Connington that I could use but other than that there is nothing within an 1 hours drive that I could use.
There is a Seneca 1 based at Cambridge which is what I would look to hire on a regualr basis however they cannot provide the training itself, so that means needing to travel down to Stapleford to complete the MEP rating.
I have seen the DA42 and could use that but I would like to complete the MEP on the bog standard 3 lever twin rather than the one lever does all.
Thanks
VFR
Price do include VAT.
I am looking to fly the Seneca as I have flown alot of the PA28 family including the arrow, so to be honest I am going for more the home sweet home feel.
There is a Duchess at Connington that I could use but other than that there is nothing within an 1 hours drive that I could use.
There is a Seneca 1 based at Cambridge which is what I would look to hire on a regualr basis however they cannot provide the training itself, so that means needing to travel down to Stapleford to complete the MEP rating.
I have seen the DA42 and could use that but I would like to complete the MEP on the bog standard 3 lever twin rather than the one lever does all.
Thanks
VFR
Join Date: May 2001
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I think the Seneca it is - that is what I would do.
If you can hire a 42 I would do so after you have your MEP - it is a really good aircraft (far better than the Seneca 1) and the conversion straight forward (other than the glass component which will take a little longer if you are new to glass).
If you can hire a 42 I would do so after you have your MEP - it is a really good aircraft (far better than the Seneca 1) and the conversion straight forward (other than the glass component which will take a little longer if you are new to glass).
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Hi Fuji,
I don't have anywhere local to hire a DA42 as Stapleford tend not to hire out their training fleet, however they do hire out their Cessna and Piper Singles for hour builders.
I will look to move over to the DA42 as this will be the aircraft of choice for the IR.
Not much in the way of twins in East Anglia although there is one at southend but again thats a Seneca 1 and expensive
Thanks for the Advice.
VFR
I don't have anywhere local to hire a DA42 as Stapleford tend not to hire out their training fleet, however they do hire out their Cessna and Piper Singles for hour builders.
I will look to move over to the DA42 as this will be the aircraft of choice for the IR.
Not much in the way of twins in East Anglia although there is one at southend but again thats a Seneca 1 and expensive
Thanks for the Advice.
VFR
Join Date: Jan 2001
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VFR
I trained in a Baron 55 which was and is a fabulous machine with loads of character and delicious handling but you may want to stick coloured bits of tape on top of the levers.
They are back to front too which is a bit of a confuser.
I only had a couple of Seneca 1 flights and wasnt impressed but Fuji dont knock the Seneca as the later ones are not bad at all.
The Five will outclimb a malibu to 20 K and still shows 700 fpm going through 18K with 1200 to 1500 fpm low level. TAS at altitude is around 212 kts.
When you loose the donkey she will maintain over 16K on one which a lot of twins cannot do on two never mind one engine.
But a one ? think I would rather spend a bit more and get something better! unless they are literally giving it away.
Pace
I trained in a Baron 55 which was and is a fabulous machine with loads of character and delicious handling but you may want to stick coloured bits of tape on top of the levers.
They are back to front too which is a bit of a confuser.I only had a couple of Seneca 1 flights and wasnt impressed but Fuji dont knock the Seneca as the later ones are not bad at all.
The Five will outclimb a malibu to 20 K and still shows 700 fpm going through 18K with 1200 to 1500 fpm low level. TAS at altitude is around 212 kts.
When you loose the donkey she will maintain over 16K on one which a lot of twins cannot do on two never mind one engine.
But a one ? think I would rather spend a bit more and get something better! unless they are literally giving it away.
Pace
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Hi Pace,
The problem I have is there is very little about in the way on Twins to hire let alone train on in my area, I guess if i wanted to travel into the london area then that would work out ok.
Stapleford is already an 1 hour 30 drive away from the house
so any further would be a holiday 
I really am stuck with the choice of aircraft if I don't want to travel miles away
VFR
The problem I have is there is very little about in the way on Twins to hire let alone train on in my area, I guess if i wanted to travel into the london area then that would work out ok.
Stapleford is already an 1 hour 30 drive away from the house
so any further would be a holiday I really am stuck with the choice of aircraft if I don't want to travel miles away
VFR
Join Date: Oct 2005
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The Complete course in the Seneca 1 is = £2,563 which is broken down to
6 Hours Dual @ £349.00
1 Hour Test @ £349.00
Written Exam @ £20.00
Flight Test Fee @ £100.00
6 Hours Dual @ £349.00
1 Hour Test @ £349.00
Written Exam @ £20.00
Flight Test Fee @ £100.00
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A Seneca 1 in Florida is about 2/3rds the price - no longer as cheap as it once was. I am afraid there wouldnt be a lot of change by going State side andI have hired some truly dreadful aircraft in America. (I have also hired some very good ones 
).
).
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Morning Chaps
I looked at the option of the USA based on how cheap it used to be but Fuji hit the nail on the head in terms of it is no longer a cheap option, don't get me wrong the course in a PA44 at EASA (OBA) is £1,795.
The whole USA route needs to be looked at with flights, Accomodation & spends not forgetting the Sevis & TSA fees
I will have a look around the london area and see what's about in terms of aircraft and rates, might even make a long weekend of it in the smoke.
Thanks again for the advice.
VFR
I looked at the option of the USA based on how cheap it used to be but Fuji hit the nail on the head in terms of it is no longer a cheap option, don't get me wrong the course in a PA44 at EASA (OBA) is £1,795.
The whole USA route needs to be looked at with flights, Accomodation & spends not forgetting the Sevis & TSA fees
I will have a look around the london area and see what's about in terms of aircraft and rates, might even make a long weekend of it in the smoke.
Thanks again for the advice.
VFR
Join Date: Aug 2003
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The Seneca 1 was comically underpowered - it makes almost any other twin (including the Seneca 2 and after) look like a Mach 3 rocket ship. On the other hand, if it is there and available, and you are just doing the rating, it's a twin.
I was checked out in a Seneca 1 when I had logged plenty of time in other twins, including Cessna 310, Duchess, and Baron. My checkout was in the southern USA, and although we were near sea level, the outside air temperature was 90F. With just myself in the left seat, and an experienced Seneca 1 pilot on the right, (no payload) we set off down the runway, both engines at full power. With what felt like a mile of concrete behind us, it only just staggered into the air. It was quite clear to me that something was horribly wrong, so with a good chunk of runway still in front, I started to close the throttles to abandon the takeoff. My colleague on the right was cracking up with laughter at the terror in my eyes: "No man", he said, "this is it! This is as good as it gets!" And so it was that we climbed into the hot sunshine, on both engines, at about 200 fpm.
At least the Seneca 1 will teach you why a piston twin is NOT a performance A aircraft.
If you are going to rent a twin to travel around in, take another look at that Duchess. Similar systems to the Seneca 1, but an infinitely nicer aircraft.
I was checked out in a Seneca 1 when I had logged plenty of time in other twins, including Cessna 310, Duchess, and Baron. My checkout was in the southern USA, and although we were near sea level, the outside air temperature was 90F. With just myself in the left seat, and an experienced Seneca 1 pilot on the right, (no payload) we set off down the runway, both engines at full power. With what felt like a mile of concrete behind us, it only just staggered into the air. It was quite clear to me that something was horribly wrong, so with a good chunk of runway still in front, I started to close the throttles to abandon the takeoff. My colleague on the right was cracking up with laughter at the terror in my eyes: "No man", he said, "this is it! This is as good as it gets!" And so it was that we climbed into the hot sunshine, on both engines, at about 200 fpm.
At least the Seneca 1 will teach you why a piston twin is NOT a performance A aircraft.
If you are going to rent a twin to travel around in, take another look at that Duchess. Similar systems to the Seneca 1, but an infinitely nicer aircraft.
