N registration
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N registration
I have just bought a aircrft which has been on UK register since being imported in 1970. For the resons we are all aware of, I have just transferred to N registration.
How do I overcome the problems with French customs re VAT. Obviously there is no VAT liable and in fact the a/c was imported when there wasn't such a word!
Look forward to some replies / advice!
How do I overcome the problems with French customs re VAT. Obviously there is no VAT liable and in fact the a/c was imported when there wasn't such a word!
Look forward to some replies / advice!
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Amused
Sorry, but I think that you have chosen the wrong name.
I’ve almost been in the same situation but decided to pull out before purchasing the a/c, it did not smell right.
Your case is very simple. All a/c that were imported into one of the E.U states before a certain date (I think 31/12/1985) are exempt from VAT. All other a/c MUST pay and carry the VAT Certificate (form C88A) on board to be shown on demand. If proof of payment cannot be shown the a/c will be confiscated until VAT and a hefty fine are paid (according to current value). The only accepted proof of payment is the VAT certificate or in some cases a letter from Customs stating that VAT was paid.
Your problem starts with your transfer to the ‘N’ Reg. and the ever friendly French officials. During the transfer to the ‘N’ Reg. you were issued with an Export C of A. Your friendly and ever helpful French official will argue that the a/c was exported to the US and then back to the UK, hence, VAT must be paid, NOW and to him (someone that was given the friendly French welcome wrote in Pilot Mag. that officials get something like 3.5% of all monies collected), if not, there are BA flights from CHD back to London. Have you ever tried to prove that you do not have a sister and that she is not a pros…..? Well, this is the case. In order to save you a possible headache I think that you should do the following.
1. Carry with you the a/c logbooks that show the date of registration to the ‘G’ Reg. and the ‘N’ Reg.
2. Write a letter to your local VAT office (or to the aviation branch in Southampton) and ask them to advise you. Make sure to mention that the a/c has not left E.U/UK territory. Do not forget to submit the photocopies from the logbooks that show 1st. registration to the ‘G’ Reg. and than to the ‘N’ Reg.
3. If you have paid VAT when you bought the a/c carry a copy on board and submit a copy to the VAT office.
The VAT office should answer within 10 days. If they say that the a/c is exempt from payment keep the original in a safe place and carry an approved copy (by a Public Noteruion) on board.
All of the above can be seen very excessive but it is all done in order to prevent your friendly French official to become over friendly.
And to the rest of you, regardless of the a/c registration you MUST carry a proof of VAT payment on board. I heard the H.M Customs & Excise has started to carry out spot checks in U.K aerodromes.
Hope that it helps.
Sorry, but I think that you have chosen the wrong name.
I’ve almost been in the same situation but decided to pull out before purchasing the a/c, it did not smell right.
Your case is very simple. All a/c that were imported into one of the E.U states before a certain date (I think 31/12/1985) are exempt from VAT. All other a/c MUST pay and carry the VAT Certificate (form C88A) on board to be shown on demand. If proof of payment cannot be shown the a/c will be confiscated until VAT and a hefty fine are paid (according to current value). The only accepted proof of payment is the VAT certificate or in some cases a letter from Customs stating that VAT was paid.
Your problem starts with your transfer to the ‘N’ Reg. and the ever friendly French officials. During the transfer to the ‘N’ Reg. you were issued with an Export C of A. Your friendly and ever helpful French official will argue that the a/c was exported to the US and then back to the UK, hence, VAT must be paid, NOW and to him (someone that was given the friendly French welcome wrote in Pilot Mag. that officials get something like 3.5% of all monies collected), if not, there are BA flights from CHD back to London. Have you ever tried to prove that you do not have a sister and that she is not a pros…..? Well, this is the case. In order to save you a possible headache I think that you should do the following.
1. Carry with you the a/c logbooks that show the date of registration to the ‘G’ Reg. and the ‘N’ Reg.
2. Write a letter to your local VAT office (or to the aviation branch in Southampton) and ask them to advise you. Make sure to mention that the a/c has not left E.U/UK territory. Do not forget to submit the photocopies from the logbooks that show 1st. registration to the ‘G’ Reg. and than to the ‘N’ Reg.
3. If you have paid VAT when you bought the a/c carry a copy on board and submit a copy to the VAT office.
The VAT office should answer within 10 days. If they say that the a/c is exempt from payment keep the original in a safe place and carry an approved copy (by a Public Noteruion) on board.
All of the above can be seen very excessive but it is all done in order to prevent your friendly French official to become over friendly.
And to the rest of you, regardless of the a/c registration you MUST carry a proof of VAT payment on board. I heard the H.M Customs & Excise has started to carry out spot checks in U.K aerodromes.
Hope that it helps.
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My cub was given to the French government in 1943 and I've got a letter from teh USAF Museum to prove it. What do you think the French would make of that?
Seriously though, after the above donation it was imported to the UK in 1981 and placed on the PFA permit system. As far as I can tell there has never been any requirement for VAT to be paid on it, second(!!!)hand goods don't require it as far as I am aware.
Any suggestions regarding what paperwork I should try to get together seeing as the gracious French will now allow Permit aircraft to grace their skies again?
Seriously though, after the above donation it was imported to the UK in 1981 and placed on the PFA permit system. As far as I can tell there has never been any requirement for VAT to be paid on it, second(!!!)hand goods don't require it as far as I am aware.
Any suggestions regarding what paperwork I should try to get together seeing as the gracious French will now allow Permit aircraft to grace their skies again?
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L&S
I thought of you in bed last night (HELP, does any one know of a good shrink?) as the answer was incomplete.
VAT on a/c and boats is charged by weight or size even if they are second hand goods. If my memory serves me right, the cut off date for VAT liability on a/c within the EU is 31/12/1985. Every a/c that was in the EU prior to this date is exempt from VAT, any a/c that was imported after is liable. That means that an a/c that was imported to the E.U on 1/1/1986 is liable for VAT. Many owners did not keep the VAT payment receipt and this is why people might have problems in the future. If the current owner can not provide sufficient evidence that VAT was paid the a/c will be impounded until VAT+fine are paid. VAT liability remains with the a/c, not with the owner! The VAT office is reluctant to provide anything in writing that says that you do not need to pay, the main reason is that they DO NOT have records! (No, I am not joking). Therefore you are the one that need to provide the evidence.
In your case I would keep a copy of the USAF Museum letter and a copy of the last French entree in the logbook and the first of the UK, or the logbook itself. If you bought the a/c from a VAT registered company they had to charge VAT, if they did not don’t worry, it is likely that no one will find out. If they did charge VAT keep a copy of the invoice in the a/c. If you bought the a/c from a privet individual there is no need for you to pay VAT. I also would try to get something in writing from the VAT office that say that all a/c that were imported before… are exempt and make sure to send copies of any paper that support your claim. I think that you are an easy case.
Hope that this one is better and sorry if I caused you blood pressure to rise.
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One thing must be said. I am not a solicitor nor an accountant or a VAT man. I came across this information during pre purchase inspections. Being very stubborn, I have demanded to have the VAT certificate. I have found the original company/person that imported the a/c to the UK (bankrupt since) and was provided with a copy of an invoice that shows a VAT charge but without a VAT registration number.
My accountant wrote to the VAT office but the answers were very vague. I have talked with AOPA UK who have promised to check with the VAT Aviation Department based in Southampton/Southend and to call back within 2 days, a year and a half later and I am still waiting. My decision was to drop that specific a/c although it was a real bargain. Be very careful with the VAT issue. Customs and Excise are aware of the problem and largely do not enforce the regulations but the day will come and then it will be very painful to many people.
Now I can go flying!
I thought of you in bed last night (HELP, does any one know of a good shrink?) as the answer was incomplete.
VAT on a/c and boats is charged by weight or size even if they are second hand goods. If my memory serves me right, the cut off date for VAT liability on a/c within the EU is 31/12/1985. Every a/c that was in the EU prior to this date is exempt from VAT, any a/c that was imported after is liable. That means that an a/c that was imported to the E.U on 1/1/1986 is liable for VAT. Many owners did not keep the VAT payment receipt and this is why people might have problems in the future. If the current owner can not provide sufficient evidence that VAT was paid the a/c will be impounded until VAT+fine are paid. VAT liability remains with the a/c, not with the owner! The VAT office is reluctant to provide anything in writing that says that you do not need to pay, the main reason is that they DO NOT have records! (No, I am not joking). Therefore you are the one that need to provide the evidence.
In your case I would keep a copy of the USAF Museum letter and a copy of the last French entree in the logbook and the first of the UK, or the logbook itself. If you bought the a/c from a VAT registered company they had to charge VAT, if they did not don’t worry, it is likely that no one will find out. If they did charge VAT keep a copy of the invoice in the a/c. If you bought the a/c from a privet individual there is no need for you to pay VAT. I also would try to get something in writing from the VAT office that say that all a/c that were imported before… are exempt and make sure to send copies of any paper that support your claim. I think that you are an easy case.
Hope that this one is better and sorry if I caused you blood pressure to rise.
--------------------------------------------
One thing must be said. I am not a solicitor nor an accountant or a VAT man. I came across this information during pre purchase inspections. Being very stubborn, I have demanded to have the VAT certificate. I have found the original company/person that imported the a/c to the UK (bankrupt since) and was provided with a copy of an invoice that shows a VAT charge but without a VAT registration number.
My accountant wrote to the VAT office but the answers were very vague. I have talked with AOPA UK who have promised to check with the VAT Aviation Department based in Southampton/Southend and to call back within 2 days, a year and a half later and I am still waiting. My decision was to drop that specific a/c although it was a real bargain. Be very careful with the VAT issue. Customs and Excise are aware of the problem and largely do not enforce the regulations but the day will come and then it will be very painful to many people.
Now I can go flying!
