Low flying choppers
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Low flying choppers
Is it my imagination or are there more about recently. Based in central south I reckon I see at least 4 sub 500 footers per week. Not concerned about noise etc, just safety for the local strip flyers who have had a few close ones since the summer.
Any military boys out there who can explain the sudden popularity in hedge hopping a chinook or have they just got louder?
Any military boys out there who can explain the sudden popularity in hedge hopping a chinook or have they just got louder?
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 349
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From: UK
Bombing down the M5 the other day. Between Taunton and Tiverton I tried to keep up with a chinook that must have been 250ft at most (I could almost see the whites of his socks 
)
Take the point about safety but this was cracking entertainment. Might look at the road next time
)Take the point about safety but this was cracking entertainment. Might look at the road next time
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,018
Likes: 73
From: Pewsey, UK
I'd pose the question in Mil Pilots or Rotorheads, for a military response - BEagle tends to be one of the few who ventures here.
If the choppers you've seen are military, I'm surprised there as high as 500' - tend more to be 250ish. From what I have seen and know, they are all professional aviatiors who understand their environment and the risks they pose to other airspace users.
And although it depends on your definition of "close", I don't recall a military helicopter being involved in an airmiss with a civil aircraft - although a Tucano did clip the back end of a police helicopter a few years ago. I'd worry more about the jets.
If the choppers you've seen are military, I'm surprised there as high as 500' - tend more to be 250ish. From what I have seen and know, they are all professional aviatiors who understand their environment and the risks they pose to other airspace users.
And although it depends on your definition of "close", I don't recall a military helicopter being involved in an airmiss with a civil aircraft - although a Tucano did clip the back end of a police helicopter a few years ago. I'd worry more about the jets.
Joined: Dec 1998
Posts: 210
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From: Down Under
250 ft!! We'd get a nose bleed.
Usual to operate at low-level by day between 75-125 ft as that is the most comfortable height to fly at in the UK due to wires etc, however, the RAF are cleared to 50 ft in transit by day and I think the RN/AAC are similar (maybe 100 ft). UK Mil helos can also conduct concealed approach and departures down to a minimum of 3 metres from obstacles.
What is the safety problem? We're trained to do this right from the offset and since the majority of low-flyers are twin pilot or pilot/nav manned it is actually easier than it looks.
HPT
Usual to operate at low-level by day between 75-125 ft as that is the most comfortable height to fly at in the UK due to wires etc, however, the RAF are cleared to 50 ft in transit by day and I think the RN/AAC are similar (maybe 100 ft). UK Mil helos can also conduct concealed approach and departures down to a minimum of 3 metres from obstacles.
What is the safety problem? We're trained to do this right from the offset and since the majority of low-flyers are twin pilot or pilot/nav manned it is actually easier than it looks.
HPT
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 16
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From: United Kingdom
.....and don't forget that it's fun!
On a serious note, we as military aviators train as we mean to fight and, for helicopter crews, this means low flying. As already stated this means as low as 50ft agl by day, if flying a CAD(concealed approach & departure) there is no vertical height limit but a minimum of 10ft laterally. Although this appears to be dangerously low, IT ISN'T. This type of flying also prepares the crews for bad weather operations; not too many civvies will fly in what the military helicopter crew are expected to operate in - 100ft cloud base and 1km vis is no fun. Some of you out there may have seen mil helo's crossing under power cables, this is an essential skill if you consider the height of the wires with regard to the weather minima above.
I hope this has helped......
On a serious note, we as military aviators train as we mean to fight and, for helicopter crews, this means low flying. As already stated this means as low as 50ft agl by day, if flying a CAD(concealed approach & departure) there is no vertical height limit but a minimum of 10ft laterally. Although this appears to be dangerously low, IT ISN'T. This type of flying also prepares the crews for bad weather operations; not too many civvies will fly in what the military helicopter crew are expected to operate in - 100ft cloud base and 1km vis is no fun. Some of you out there may have seen mil helo's crossing under power cables, this is an essential skill if you consider the height of the wires with regard to the weather minima above.
I hope this has helped......
Joined: May 1999
Posts: 159
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From: Can't remember
I do recall the Red arrows on route to the Southport airshow passing over the Old Trafford football ground at 1000' then over Warrington (I was in a C150 in the LLR south of Warrington at the time, excellent view)
The thought did occur: - A Hawk is still a single engine A/C, Ok so I know the reliability of a turbine engine is greatly superior to a piston, and military pilots are exceptionally well trained. But where is the aircraft going end up when the N1 rapidly reduces along with the EGT. There are not all that many open spaces in that area.
The thought did occur: - A Hawk is still a single engine A/C, Ok so I know the reliability of a turbine engine is greatly superior to a piston, and military pilots are exceptionally well trained. But where is the aircraft going end up when the N1 rapidly reduces along with the EGT. There are not all that many open spaces in that area.
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,399
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From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
1. Military low flying helicopters train as they fight; most are based in south Uk, so you're more likely to see them down here.
2. I don't think that the Red Arrows are necessarily exempt from Rule 5. And what about their flypasts over London.....I'm not entirely sure about the rules pertaining to non-operational low flying by the likes of RAFAT though; perhaps things would become clearer if one of them suffered a birdstrike over the Mall..........
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
2. I don't think that the Red Arrows are necessarily exempt from Rule 5. And what about their flypasts over London.....I'm not entirely sure about the rules pertaining to non-operational low flying by the likes of RAFAT though; perhaps things would become clearer if one of them suffered a birdstrike over the Mall..........
[ 02 December 2001: Message edited by: BEagle ]
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 496
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From: Norfolk
DOC400; the minima are divided into day or night with single or twin pilot but the most relevant is day single pilot, with a sliding scale starting at cloud ceiling [not cloudbase] of 300-399ft/3000m vis; 400-499ft/2000m vis and 500ft+/1500m vis. Police flights on the other hand need 300ft base but only 1000m vis in open country.
