VFR Practice approaches
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VFR Practice approaches
If I want to carry out practice approaches at say EGHH, in VFR conditions, under the hood with a safety pilot, with say a VFR missed appr, would I be charged an approach fee??...just curious !
Thanks !
Thanks !
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englishal
I think you need to think this through a bit more before you ring the tower, or they might be mightily confused
You seem to be suggesting a melange of an IFR approach with a visual "go around" from decision height (or altitude depending on the type of IFR approach.)
As far as I am aware, it is customary to fly a practice IFR approach and then then the published IFR missed approach procedure - this so that everyone knows what you are going to do and so that ATC can provide safe separation between VFR/IFR traffic.
If you were to fly some VFR approaches under the hood and go around at decision height/altitude and recoiver into a VFR circuit, then that would work to some extent as a learning experience, unless something went wrong (e.g. you had an airprox) and questions were asked about how you (as P1) were discharging your responsibilities for the safety of the aircraft and occupants.
My view would be to do the job properly and practice some IFR approached with an instructor as P1. It will be more expensive, but far better/safer.
F3G
PS: From personal experience, I have had an incident on a practice ILS approach, where other traffic flew through the approach (quite legally, since we were outside the ATZ) and a number of questions were asked of both parties afterwards. As I was flying with an instructor and we had booked the approaches and were under ATC control, we were completely exonerated.
I think you need to think this through a bit more before you ring the tower, or they might be mightily confused
You seem to be suggesting a melange of an IFR approach with a visual "go around" from decision height (or altitude depending on the type of IFR approach.)
As far as I am aware, it is customary to fly a practice IFR approach and then then the published IFR missed approach procedure - this so that everyone knows what you are going to do and so that ATC can provide safe separation between VFR/IFR traffic.
If you were to fly some VFR approaches under the hood and go around at decision height/altitude and recoiver into a VFR circuit, then that would work to some extent as a learning experience, unless something went wrong (e.g. you had an airprox) and questions were asked about how you (as P1) were discharging your responsibilities for the safety of the aircraft and occupants.
My view would be to do the job properly and practice some IFR approached with an instructor as P1. It will be more expensive, but far better/safer.
F3G
PS: From personal experience, I have had an incident on a practice ILS approach, where other traffic flew through the approach (quite legally, since we were outside the ATZ) and a number of questions were asked of both parties afterwards. As I was flying with an instructor and we had booked the approaches and were under ATC control, we were completely exonerated.
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Thanks for the reply...That is one option. See the thing is I have an FAA IR(A) and would quite like to remain instrument current the cheapest possible way. I can have issued an IMC on the basis of my IR but don't have as yet, so the only real option is to practice these approaches VFR, with a safety pilot while under the hood. I'm not 100% sure of how it is in the UK but normally in the states the Approach controllers are happy to issue a VFR practice approach clearance as it makes their lives easier, and so long as the tower know you're going to 'circle south of the airport' or whatever on the missed approach then everyone is happy, plus I can fit in more approaches than if I execute the published MAP.
cheers
cheers
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englishal
I understand your position, but you would be best advised to remember that operating practices between the US and UK are different - e.g. "cleared for the option" is another US procedure that is not often encountered over here.
So what is well understood over there, may be less so over here and consequently cause confusion.
Could you find an N regd a/c to fly? Then you would have your full IR priviliges and could practice to your heart's content.
I understand your position, but you would be best advised to remember that operating practices between the US and UK are different - e.g. "cleared for the option" is another US procedure that is not often encountered over here.
So what is well understood over there, may be less so over here and consequently cause confusion.
Could you find an N regd a/c to fly? Then you would have your full IR priviliges and could practice to your heart's content.
I say there boy
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As has been said you need to work out what you are doing and advise ATC accordingly.
Are you going to fly an instrument approach to minima and then fly a visual go-around to depart to another field VFR without landing? If so as has been said it would be wiser to follow the standard missed approach (or ATC instructions) and then ask for VFR once established on the missed approach. I'd expect the airport in question to want to charge for this approach.
Are you going to fly an instrument approach to minima and then go around into a visual circuit to land? If so this is a circling approach and should have its own published minima.
I've found that charging for instrument approaches that end in full-stop landings varies depending on the airfield in question. Many airfields will not charge additional instrument approach fees for a non-local aircraft as long as you pay for a full-stop landing.
Busier fields like Biggin reserve the right to charge light aircraft an additional fee for the instrument approach in good VMC (ie. the instrument approach was not really necessary). Other fields will always charge you additionally for the instrument approach.
As has been said, it's best to call to find out. Don't always expect the first person you talk to to know, though - I've been put through to all and sundry at one place to find out whther I would be charged extra for an ILS approach in CAVOK conditions (at Exeter and I wasn't charged - nice friendly airport).
cheers!
foggy.
[ 25 November 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
Are you going to fly an instrument approach to minima and then fly a visual go-around to depart to another field VFR without landing? If so as has been said it would be wiser to follow the standard missed approach (or ATC instructions) and then ask for VFR once established on the missed approach. I'd expect the airport in question to want to charge for this approach.
Are you going to fly an instrument approach to minima and then go around into a visual circuit to land? If so this is a circling approach and should have its own published minima.
I've found that charging for instrument approaches that end in full-stop landings varies depending on the airfield in question. Many airfields will not charge additional instrument approach fees for a non-local aircraft as long as you pay for a full-stop landing.
Busier fields like Biggin reserve the right to charge light aircraft an additional fee for the instrument approach in good VMC (ie. the instrument approach was not really necessary). Other fields will always charge you additionally for the instrument approach.
As has been said, it's best to call to find out. Don't always expect the first person you talk to to know, though - I've been put through to all and sundry at one place to find out whther I would be charged extra for an ILS approach in CAVOK conditions (at Exeter and I wasn't charged - nice friendly airport).
cheers!
foggy.
[ 25 November 2001: Message edited by: foghorn ]
Nothing wrong with flying an approach under VFR, and sometimes it can help to fit you in. As VFR traffic in class D, the controller is not obliged to separate you from IFR traffic, though the flexibility demonstrated can vary from place to place. I very much doubt that you'll escape the fee though!
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Thanks for the replys...yep my main aim was to get away with paying as little as possible for shooting several approaches. The easiest way in my eyes would be to shoot the approaches VFR but under the hood with a safety pilot, then to expedite the next approach to go missed at minimums and basically circle back to the IAF or get vectors for the next one (not a circle to land). I understand that the ATC need to be fully aware of what my intentions will be, but I just wondered if practice approaches as mentioned are common or not in the UK. I could of course carry out the full Missed app. procedure, which wouldn't be a bad thing anyway. (Would be crappy to get charged an approach fee for every practice approach though.) I did hear Calais are happy to give practice approaches as are many military airfields...
Englishal
Englishal
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This one came up a while ago (ie you might be able to find something if you go back a few months), the general consensus being that Calais is the cheapest for doing approaches. Now Le2K has an ILS, I imagine they may in a similar boat.
In any case, phone them first, they are all reasonable staff, and will tell you the busy times to avoid so that you can get the most approaches in for your air-time. I can assure you that both EGHH and EGHI will want to charge you for approaches you do, landing or not, but that said, every time I have given my details to EGHI and subsequently done the deed(s), they have failed to charge the credit card!
In any case, phone them first, they are all reasonable staff, and will tell you the busy times to avoid so that you can get the most approaches in for your air-time. I can assure you that both EGHH and EGHI will want to charge you for approaches you do, landing or not, but that said, every time I have given my details to EGHI and subsequently done the deed(s), they have failed to charge the credit card!
