NPPL or LAPL?
Thread Starter
NPPL or LAPL?
As many will know, the NPPL has been running for about 8 years now. Designed primarily for day VFR flying in UK airspace in simple light aircraft - such as 'SSEA' light pistions, SLMGs and Microlights and requiring nothing more medically demanding than a Medical Declaration. It is also a 'lifetime licence'.
Whereas the proposed EASA 'LAPL' would require a substantially more demanding medical, probably debarring many Class 1 Medical Declaration holders from flying aircraft such as Cessna 152s or PA28s. However, it would be usable internationally across all EC Member States. It would need to be re-issued every 5 years.
A simple question. Which of the following would you sooner have:
A. A lifetime licence usable only in the UK, but with a simple Medical Declaration.
or
B. A 5-year licence without Microlight or SLMG privileges, usable intra-EC but with more demanding medical requirements.
Please restrict your comments to these options only!
Thanks.
Whereas the proposed EASA 'LAPL' would require a substantially more demanding medical, probably debarring many Class 1 Medical Declaration holders from flying aircraft such as Cessna 152s or PA28s. However, it would be usable internationally across all EC Member States. It would need to be re-issued every 5 years.
A simple question. Which of the following would you sooner have:
A. A lifetime licence usable only in the UK, but with a simple Medical Declaration.
or
B. A 5-year licence without Microlight or SLMG privileges, usable intra-EC but with more demanding medical requirements.
Please restrict your comments to these options only!
Thanks.
I hold a CAA PPL (lifetime) but have let the medical lapse. Purely for convenience and low cost I changed to an NPPL SEA with Medical Declaration a few years ago. At my age, I am happy to be restricted to the UK only.
For me, at 70, OPTION A is the only one. It is likely that the more demanding medical requirements of the proposed LAPL will mark the end of my flying, not because I think I would fail it at the moment, but the cost and emb*ggeration of an expensive medical might be the final straw.
I really want to fly until my pocket, body, brain or passengers/instructors tell me it's time to stop. OPTION A allows me to do that. One day, my Medical Declaration may restrict me to driving a car but will still allow me to fly solo or with another member of my group. I may well want to do that for as long as I can.
For me, at 70, OPTION A is the only one. It is likely that the more demanding medical requirements of the proposed LAPL will mark the end of my flying, not because I think I would fail it at the moment, but the cost and emb*ggeration of an expensive medical might be the final straw.
I really want to fly until my pocket, body, brain or passengers/instructors tell me it's time to stop. OPTION A allows me to do that. One day, my Medical Declaration may restrict me to driving a car but will still allow me to fly solo or with another member of my group. I may well want to do that for as long as I can.
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Totally agree
As I have stated before,I require a lifetime licence usable only in the UK, but with a simple Medical Declaration.
I am not interested in flying abroad,or in emptying my bank balance for medical fees,which in my case would be around £700+ per year as I have a Pacemaker fitted.
My GP has full medical knowledge of me and has had no hesitation in signing my HGV type self declaration,and in fact does not even charge me for this.
I would be happy to do whatever I can within reason to help this proposal go forward to ratification (is that the correct term?)
Thanks once again Beagle for keeping us informed.
Lister
I am not interested in flying abroad,or in emptying my bank balance for medical fees,which in my case would be around £700+ per year as I have a Pacemaker fitted.
My GP has full medical knowledge of me and has had no hesitation in signing my HGV type self declaration,and in fact does not even charge me for this.
I would be happy to do whatever I can within reason to help this proposal go forward to ratification (is that the correct term?)
Thanks once again Beagle for keeping us informed.
Lister
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That's a difficult one
At the moment I can't get a class 2 medical because my glasses prescription does not meet the initial requirements so if I wanted to get a licence it would have to be NPPL.
I live in the south east, so day trips to France are within range and it would be nice to do them, but for me, the big restriction would be the IMC or Night ratings. As the NPPL is VFR only you would need a very good forecast to do much more than a day trip be it in the UK or accross to mainland Europe. so to answer A or B as per BEagles question I would have to ask two questions.
1) would I get through the LAPL medical
2) could I get an Instrument or Night rating that would allow me to fly in a bigger range of conditions.
If the answer to 2, above is no then definately NPPL
Please bear in mind that this is the view of someone who has done some gliding and is considering training for a pilots licence when i can afford it and when EASA work out what sort of licence will be available to me in the future...
I live in the south east, so day trips to France are within range and it would be nice to do them, but for me, the big restriction would be the IMC or Night ratings. As the NPPL is VFR only you would need a very good forecast to do much more than a day trip be it in the UK or accross to mainland Europe. so to answer A or B as per BEagles question I would have to ask two questions.
1) would I get through the LAPL medical
2) could I get an Instrument or Night rating that would allow me to fly in a bigger range of conditions.
If the answer to 2, above is no then definately NPPL
Please bear in mind that this is the view of someone who has done some gliding and is considering training for a pilots licence when i can afford it and when EASA work out what sort of licence will be available to me in the future...
Thread Starter
Instrument - no.
Night - perhaps, but it would depend upon your being able to pass the mandatory eyesight test which is proposed to be an element of the LAPL medical certificate.
It isn't particularly difficult to fly across the UK under VFR - hundreds do it every weekend.
Night - perhaps, but it would depend upon your being able to pass the mandatory eyesight test which is proposed to be an element of the LAPL medical certificate.
It isn't particularly difficult to fly across the UK under VFR - hundreds do it every weekend.
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I've had a glance through the new proposals,and there are a lot more medical restrictions for the EASA, NPPL equivalent.
Being signed of by one's GP will be more intensive than HGV or Car type self assesment medical requirements,and may involve costly tests.
Anyway I'll just enjoy the next couple of years and see what transpires.
Lister
Being signed of by one's GP will be more intensive than HGV or Car type self assesment medical requirements,and may involve costly tests.
Anyway I'll just enjoy the next couple of years and see what transpires.
Lister
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Hi Beagle, thanks for the update.
I know it's not dificult to fly accross the UK VFR, the interest in the instrument rating more from the point of view of how i imagine I would fly, given the chance.
The two main factors against learning to fly for me are time and money. Whilst I would love to fly I need to square that with time spent with my wife and kids and the thousands of pounds learning to fly would buy a lot of family holidays!
If I could use my licence for, say, weekend trips away then flying has the potential to be a family activity rather than a selfish one. I think that it is probably harder to be sure of VMC for a full weekend, especially as you venture further from home. Of course, my family might not want to fly with me!
Still, since an instrument rating will not be possible then my answer is definately NPPL!
I know it's not dificult to fly accross the UK VFR, the interest in the instrument rating more from the point of view of how i imagine I would fly, given the chance.
The two main factors against learning to fly for me are time and money. Whilst I would love to fly I need to square that with time spent with my wife and kids and the thousands of pounds learning to fly would buy a lot of family holidays!
If I could use my licence for, say, weekend trips away then flying has the potential to be a family activity rather than a selfish one. I think that it is probably harder to be sure of VMC for a full weekend, especially as you venture further from home. Of course, my family might not want to fly with me!
Still, since an instrument rating will not be possible then my answer is definately NPPL!
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Beagle. Your options are a little simplistic until we know the full details and ramifications of the NPPL / LAPL - or are you saying that it's only ever the medicals that are likely to be different?
Don't forget that the NPPL (Microlights) is already a licence that can be used to fly across Europe, and it's important that this is not changed. Whilst the NPPL for SSEA and SLMG is a 'choice' in that pilots can choose whether to fly on this or a JAR licence - for microlights it's the only one available. Microlight pilots with an NPPL have already been shafted (deliberate choice of words) with an entirely unnecessary revalidation regime that was not supported by the panel of microlight examiners and was opposed in a sham consultation - to no avail.
Don't forget that the NPPL (Microlights) is already a licence that can be used to fly across Europe, and it's important that this is not changed. Whilst the NPPL for SSEA and SLMG is a 'choice' in that pilots can choose whether to fly on this or a JAR licence - for microlights it's the only one available. Microlight pilots with an NPPL have already been shafted (deliberate choice of words) with an entirely unnecessary revalidation regime that was not supported by the panel of microlight examiners and was opposed in a sham consultation - to no avail.
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Has to be option A!
As a newly qualled NPPL who's waited a lifetime to get here (well - 40 years) and who can't get a JAR medical due to one weak eye I'd be heartbroken if my flying were stopped.
If the licence becomes the LAPL and Europe wide - under tighter medical regs - will those of us currently licenced not be allowed to fly any more - or will we get some sort of 'grandfather' rights?
It's like the recent news that NPPLs were to be allowed to fly in France - but only if you have a JAR medical. That's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard to most NPPLs...
Of course - my ideal is to be able to fly in Europe on a licence that has the same medical requirements as the UK NPPL - which is what I thought was happening.
Are there any stats regarding NPPL safety verses PPL safety?
Sigh...
I had such great hopes for a European Sport Pilot Licence...
Iain
As a newly qualled NPPL who's waited a lifetime to get here (well - 40 years) and who can't get a JAR medical due to one weak eye I'd be heartbroken if my flying were stopped.
If the licence becomes the LAPL and Europe wide - under tighter medical regs - will those of us currently licenced not be allowed to fly any more - or will we get some sort of 'grandfather' rights?
It's like the recent news that NPPLs were to be allowed to fly in France - but only if you have a JAR medical. That's about as useful as a chocolate fireguard to most NPPLs...
Of course - my ideal is to be able to fly in Europe on a licence that has the same medical requirements as the UK NPPL - which is what I thought was happening.
Are there any stats regarding NPPL safety verses PPL safety?
Sigh...
I had such great hopes for a European Sport Pilot Licence...
Iain
Last edited by 851Pilot; 21st Sep 2010 at 17:10.
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Many years ago I was all for Europe,free trade,less barriers,etc.
But I known what was going to happen I would have been vehemently against joining.
How come we have give away our sovereign rights without actually realising it?
But I known what was going to happen I would have been vehemently against joining.
How come we have give away our sovereign rights without actually realising it?
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"Are there any stats regarding NPPL safety verses PPL safety?"
Yes. Can't quote them from memory but I believe only one medical incapacitation with fatal consequences in 8 years since NPPL started.
I have prepared the ones for UK gliding which has operated on the self-declaration basis since 1960s and from 2002 to the NPPL standard including GP endorsement. Guess what - 6 fatal accidents due to medical incapacitation in 36 years of computerised accident records with proper causal analyses (not just 'phase of flight' type analysis). In that time 14.4m flights and probably around 5 million hours. Hence FAR considerably less than the 1% risk accepted by JAA, and no uninvolved third parties affected. One involved third party (student) died in that time as a result of possible instructor incapacitation.
Work out the rate for yourselves!
Oh, and sadly three fatal accidents to tug pilots (also glider pilots) whilst towing, due to medical incapacitation. But they held JAR Class 2 medicals.
Yes. Can't quote them from memory but I believe only one medical incapacitation with fatal consequences in 8 years since NPPL started.
I have prepared the ones for UK gliding which has operated on the self-declaration basis since 1960s and from 2002 to the NPPL standard including GP endorsement. Guess what - 6 fatal accidents due to medical incapacitation in 36 years of computerised accident records with proper causal analyses (not just 'phase of flight' type analysis). In that time 14.4m flights and probably around 5 million hours. Hence FAR considerably less than the 1% risk accepted by JAA, and no uninvolved third parties affected. One involved third party (student) died in that time as a result of possible instructor incapacitation.
Work out the rate for yourselves!
Oh, and sadly three fatal accidents to tug pilots (also glider pilots) whilst towing, due to medical incapacitation. But they held JAR Class 2 medicals.