Why does the pilot sit in the back in biplanes?
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
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From: London, UK
FFF, wasn't the first known spin recovery accomplished by Lt Parke RN in (I think) a Boxkite some time before WW1? The spin was initially referred to by Brit pilots as "Parke's Dive". The bloke you refer to was perhaps the first to understand why an aircraft spun and how and why it recovered?
As for WW1 pilot experience, I recall reading in Pilot Mag a while back of a Nieuport ace who was made an instructor with fewer than 30 hours. The occasional reports by the Shuttleworth pilots in that and other publications suggest just how hard those early machines were to fly. I seem to recall that Cecil Lewis was slightly unusual in that he was (mis) posted as a ferry pilot after training and so had, relatively speaking, lots of hours and types when he later joined his first front line unit. It speaks volumes to his skill that he recorded combat successes in a Morane Parasol, generally regarded as a pilot killer.
Tiger Moth, how's it going? Sounds like you've been making some progress with the mighty sideways flying machine. Keep it going and don't let the grumpies get to you.
As for WW1 pilot experience, I recall reading in Pilot Mag a while back of a Nieuport ace who was made an instructor with fewer than 30 hours. The occasional reports by the Shuttleworth pilots in that and other publications suggest just how hard those early machines were to fly. I seem to recall that Cecil Lewis was slightly unusual in that he was (mis) posted as a ferry pilot after training and so had, relatively speaking, lots of hours and types when he later joined his first front line unit. It speaks volumes to his skill that he recorded combat successes in a Morane Parasol, generally regarded as a pilot killer.
Tiger Moth, how's it going? Sounds like you've been making some progress with the mighty sideways flying machine. Keep it going and don't let the grumpies get to you.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
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From: Bournemouth
Quite possible, FNG - I couldn't find where I got this story from, and I'm not known for remembering facts particularly accurately. I thought it was a good story, though!
FFF
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FFF
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Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 492
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From: Manchester, UK
Tiger Moth - you're quite right in that this media (internet) allows some people to be incredibly rude, disparaging & potentially off putting to relatively inexperienced people. 'course, they can do it from the anonymity & safety of their little virtual caves...
But my advice is just chill out, dont get worried, they get at me too sometimes, and I've been flying for a long while now. I think it may be to do with the fact that aviation is an individualist past-time, and therefore attracts a lot of "individuals" (logically enough!). Egos need massaging, superiority needs to be established, etc etc....
Luckily I can assure you (and you probably know anyway) that there are also a lot of great people in aviation, who are only too pleased to listen, discuss, and yes, correct innacuracies, but in a non-combative way.
Just think of the negative ones as the equivalent of the irritating BMW 6 feet off your back bumper on a country road, itching to get past, shove his finger up at you and show you how smart, fast & clever he is. Without his car he's probably a vulnerable wreck.
They are the ones with the problems, not you!
But my advice is just chill out, dont get worried, they get at me too sometimes, and I've been flying for a long while now. I think it may be to do with the fact that aviation is an individualist past-time, and therefore attracts a lot of "individuals" (logically enough!). Egos need massaging, superiority needs to be established, etc etc....
Luckily I can assure you (and you probably know anyway) that there are also a lot of great people in aviation, who are only too pleased to listen, discuss, and yes, correct innacuracies, but in a non-combative way.
Just think of the negative ones as the equivalent of the irritating BMW 6 feet off your back bumper on a country road, itching to get past, shove his finger up at you and show you how smart, fast & clever he is. Without his car he's probably a vulnerable wreck.
They are the ones with the problems, not you!
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
Its going quite well. I had a period a while back where I didnt fly for ages but in the last few weeks Ive been lucky with the weather. Seems like i could fly tommorrow too. Ive been flying around and around in circles lately which is fun as I like landing and taking off.
Was Lewis a ferry pilot when he first went to France? I thought he just arrived at St. Omer where all the ferry pilots were and they kept him there just to gain more time but he didnt actually ferry anything. He did his first loop and forced landing at the same time and ruined a Bristol Bullet when he was there.
Has anyone heard of "Flying Fury" by James McCudden. I heard it mentioned somewhere. Is it diaries or what and is it good?
Was Lewis a ferry pilot when he first went to France? I thought he just arrived at St. Omer where all the ferry pilots were and they kept him there just to gain more time but he didnt actually ferry anything. He did his first loop and forced landing at the same time and ruined a Bristol Bullet when he was there.
Has anyone heard of "Flying Fury" by James McCudden. I heard it mentioned somewhere. Is it diaries or what and is it good?
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Canada
Yes TM, Flying Fury is a good read. See further this site [the hyperbole about McCudden being "the RFC's greatest fighter ace" is debateable, but don't let that deter you from searching out a copy].
People who believe all this talk of pilots being sent straight onto Spitfires after five hours on Moths doubtless believe those stories about the Germans eating babies in Belgium during WWI, the recent Iraq invasion was necessary because there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, etc. etc. There are any number of firsthand RAF/RCAF/RAAF/SAAF/RZNAF accounts that document the relatively lengthy period of pilot training, even during the dark days of the Battle of Britain.
People who believe all this talk of pilots being sent straight onto Spitfires after five hours on Moths doubtless believe those stories about the Germans eating babies in Belgium during WWI, the recent Iraq invasion was necessary because there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, etc. etc. There are any number of firsthand RAF/RCAF/RAAF/SAAF/RZNAF accounts that document the relatively lengthy period of pilot training, even during the dark days of the Battle of Britain.
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
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From: England
Better late than never! In the 2 or so years (!) since my last entry on this post I did manage to track down a copy and read it. But thanks anyway. The most amazing thing is the way he started off as a mechanic in the ranks and ended up a Major with a VC. Reminds me of the TV series Sharpe.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: New South Wales
There are any number of firsthand RAF/RCAF/RAAF/SAAF/RZNAF accounts that document the relatively lengthy period of pilot training, even during the dark days of the Battle of Britain.
David
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
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From: England
First Light is one of the best flying books around.
Flying is going well, I've got about 33 hours now, 5 or 6 of which are solo. I keep trying to get off on solo cross countries but then getting stood down at the last minute because of weather. It's seems a bit optimistic that I get my licence this summer but it's quite possible if I'm lucky with the weather. I have to do at least 3 solo x countries and one dual landaway before I'm looking at doing the qualifying x country.
Sideways flying machine? I don't get it, I've never heard that saying before. Is it because the Moth is so slow that if it flys in a strong cross wind it's practically flying sideways??
Flying is going well, I've got about 33 hours now, 5 or 6 of which are solo. I keep trying to get off on solo cross countries but then getting stood down at the last minute because of weather. It's seems a bit optimistic that I get my licence this summer but it's quite possible if I'm lucky with the weather. I have to do at least 3 solo x countries and one dual landaway before I'm looking at doing the qualifying x country.
Sideways flying machine? I don't get it, I've never heard that saying before. Is it because the Moth is so slow that if it flys in a strong cross wind it's practically flying sideways??
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
No I don't thank God! We get an exemption so I end up doing about a 100nm or something like that. Will still take 3 or 4 hours with all the stops and refuelling etc.
Thanks for clearing that up FNG, I get it now.
Thanks for clearing that up FNG, I get it now.
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,085
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From: Canada
Oh come on! If Francis Chichester, Amy Johnson et al. could fly their Gypsy Moths all the way down to Oz, sure you can fly a lousy 150 nm in a Tiger!
Exemptions be damned! You know that you're made of sterner stuff! Go for it!
Exemptions be damned! You know that you're made of sterner stuff! Go for it!
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 437
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From: Far East
Just read the book 'First Light' myself. The author did about 50 hrs Tiger Moth, then a few dozen hours on a complex type (Harvard - something way beuond the scope of most modern CAA PPLs) then he went straight to an active squadron. The CO almost refused him permision to stay because he was so inexperienced to fly fly a Spitfire with his ~160hrs. Indeed he nearly killed him self several times during his familiarisation flights in the Spit.
There is no way an inexperienced flyer could handle a 2000hp piston engine tailwheel aircarft.
Anyway, read the book, 'tis bloody good!
There is no way an inexperienced flyer could handle a 2000hp piston engine tailwheel aircarft.
Anyway, read the book, 'tis bloody good!
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: The Heart
A point of interest, back in the 50's they used to race Tigers from the front seat due to c of g thus reduced tail down force thus more efficient aerodynamics.
It is quite often noticable on ait to air shots of the Tiger; slight down elevator.
It is quite often noticable on ait to air shots of the Tiger; slight down elevator.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Canada
Harvard
Harvard - something way beyond the scope of most modern CAA PPLs
