Seeking cheaper GA flying - Where to go from here?
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Seeking cheaper GA flying - Where to go from here?
Firstly, please note that I say 'cheaper', not 'cheap' - I don't want to be branded as someone wanting to take risks with bad reputation flying schools and/or shoddy aircraft!
The situation is this: Having gained my PPL about a year ago, I had a CPL in mind and being young/blasé about the money involved, very quickly joined a local non-equity Cessna 172 group to begin building my hours. I'm now up to 120 hours, the C172 has been brilliant fun, and at £60 a month + £100 an hour (wet) it was affordable at the time. However, I've had a slight change of heart regarding the CPL, have got myself a new career on track and have instead started considering flying as more of a long term hobby as opposed to a career.
It's dawned on me recently that I very rarely carry more than 1 pax (leaving the rear seats redundant most of the time) and now that I'm not 'hour building' for the sake of it, the financial side of things is starting to become a much greater consideration. I'm saving for a house, and with this in mind I might only be able to afford 2 hours flying a month in the C172, which hardly seems worth it! I really don't want to allow my PPL to lapse because of feeling that it's no longer worth it, and especially don't want to get out-of-practice and rusty.
I'm therefore looking at potential ways to fly something cheaper and smaller, spending the same amount of money each month as I do now but getting more flying hours out of it in total. Despite working in the industry I'm afraid I have to admit that I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to the various categories of aircraft out there (ie. BMAA/LAA, permit/non-permit aircraft, etc). I guess I've never needed to know and have never asked the questions until now!
So here are the main questions:
- Can someone help me distinguish between all the various categories/options of flying and aircraft that are available to me? I don't mind reading through a few website links if someone else has already asked the same questions.
- Ideally I'd prefer to fly an aircraft that allows me to log the SEP hours, keeping my PPL current. I assume that this rules out any microlights? What are the smallest types of aircraft that would allow me to log SEP hours? From what I gather, non-permit aircraft will always be cheaper than a full CofA aircraft, but as of yet I don't really understand where the boundaries lie for all these various categories.
- Finally, how can I get the ball rolling, where do I start looking? I don't have huge amounts of cash saved and so doubt I could afford to buy an actual share in an aircraft. Ideally for me I'd join another non-equity group - do such groups exist for smaller aircraft than your average C172/PA28? I'm based in the Essex area, my 3 most local airfields are North Weald, Stapleford and Andrewsfield.
Any help/pointers will be greatly appreciated!
The situation is this: Having gained my PPL about a year ago, I had a CPL in mind and being young/blasé about the money involved, very quickly joined a local non-equity Cessna 172 group to begin building my hours. I'm now up to 120 hours, the C172 has been brilliant fun, and at £60 a month + £100 an hour (wet) it was affordable at the time. However, I've had a slight change of heart regarding the CPL, have got myself a new career on track and have instead started considering flying as more of a long term hobby as opposed to a career.
It's dawned on me recently that I very rarely carry more than 1 pax (leaving the rear seats redundant most of the time) and now that I'm not 'hour building' for the sake of it, the financial side of things is starting to become a much greater consideration. I'm saving for a house, and with this in mind I might only be able to afford 2 hours flying a month in the C172, which hardly seems worth it! I really don't want to allow my PPL to lapse because of feeling that it's no longer worth it, and especially don't want to get out-of-practice and rusty.
I'm therefore looking at potential ways to fly something cheaper and smaller, spending the same amount of money each month as I do now but getting more flying hours out of it in total. Despite working in the industry I'm afraid I have to admit that I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to the various categories of aircraft out there (ie. BMAA/LAA, permit/non-permit aircraft, etc). I guess I've never needed to know and have never asked the questions until now!
So here are the main questions:
- Can someone help me distinguish between all the various categories/options of flying and aircraft that are available to me? I don't mind reading through a few website links if someone else has already asked the same questions.
- Ideally I'd prefer to fly an aircraft that allows me to log the SEP hours, keeping my PPL current. I assume that this rules out any microlights? What are the smallest types of aircraft that would allow me to log SEP hours? From what I gather, non-permit aircraft will always be cheaper than a full CofA aircraft, but as of yet I don't really understand where the boundaries lie for all these various categories.
- Finally, how can I get the ball rolling, where do I start looking? I don't have huge amounts of cash saved and so doubt I could afford to buy an actual share in an aircraft. Ideally for me I'd join another non-equity group - do such groups exist for smaller aircraft than your average C172/PA28? I'm based in the Essex area, my 3 most local airfields are North Weald, Stapleford and Andrewsfield.
Any help/pointers will be greatly appreciated!
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Hiya
I am looking at a couple of things at the moment
1 is trying to set up a group based at earls Colne maybe Rayne hall Farm on Jodel d112 2 seat on permit looking at £3k a share and hourly under £40 wet
Any group A aircraft you can log sep time permit or C of A
the other Idea I will Pm you about
I am looking at a couple of things at the moment
1 is trying to set up a group based at earls Colne maybe Rayne hall Farm on Jodel d112 2 seat on permit looking at £3k a share and hourly under £40 wet
Any group A aircraft you can log sep time permit or C of A
the other Idea I will Pm you about
Join Date: Mar 2010
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Get an aircraft on an LAA permit without a doubt. I fly a Super Emeraude(2 seater capable of 3 hours (more if you trade off load) endurance @90kt carrying 200kg of pilot/pax/bags) for around £35 per hour. I do my own maintenance (I have no mechanical background I have learned (am learning!) by doing with the help of very nice people I've met through the LAA) and run it on Mogas. I personally wouldn't go near a Cof A aircraft unless you need the capabilities (night/IMC etc) it brings and have the wallet to cope with the "fixed"(ish) costs of the maintenance etc.
Have a look in the LAA mag at some of the aircraft available. There are some absolute bargains to be had at the moment.
Have a look in the LAA mag at some of the aircraft available. There are some absolute bargains to be had at the moment.
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Andrewsfield has several LAA groups to my knowledge. Rayne Hall farm has even more LAA aircraft and I believe there may be a share or two going. Well worth visiting and making yourself known.
Join Date: May 2003
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Dan:
Many of your questions have been answered but to address a few specific points, the smallest aircraft (SEP rather than microlight) is likely to be a single seater. For these you need a tailwheel sign off and also to get a few additional hours before contemplating buying. Many cheap group aircraft, which will be on a permit, will also be tailwheel.
Permit share are often quite cheap - in the order of £1500 to £3500 and the hourly rate will come in way below a C of A aircraft. You won't find a non equity permit aircraft as the non equity concept is essentially hire for reward, which you cannot do on a Permit. A single seat will cost you £6k to £8k outright and is the cheapest option for outright ownership.
Two hours a month in a C172 probably equates to around £300. For that money you could get say around 8 hours in a Piper L4 cub! So, the savings with a permit aircraft can be significant, though you will generally have to add in a monthly contribution. I suggest scanning the adverts in the flying magazines and on Afors.com as this will give you an idea of availability and the relative costs of different types of aircraft. Ultimately though your choice will be determined by what is available in you local (ie around 1 hour's drive) area.
Many of your questions have been answered but to address a few specific points, the smallest aircraft (SEP rather than microlight) is likely to be a single seater. For these you need a tailwheel sign off and also to get a few additional hours before contemplating buying. Many cheap group aircraft, which will be on a permit, will also be tailwheel.
Permit share are often quite cheap - in the order of £1500 to £3500 and the hourly rate will come in way below a C of A aircraft. You won't find a non equity permit aircraft as the non equity concept is essentially hire for reward, which you cannot do on a Permit. A single seat will cost you £6k to £8k outright and is the cheapest option for outright ownership.
Two hours a month in a C172 probably equates to around £300. For that money you could get say around 8 hours in a Piper L4 cub! So, the savings with a permit aircraft can be significant, though you will generally have to add in a monthly contribution. I suggest scanning the adverts in the flying magazines and on Afors.com as this will give you an idea of availability and the relative costs of different types of aircraft. Ultimately though your choice will be determined by what is available in you local (ie around 1 hour's drive) area.
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I agree with all of the above plus there is the fun factor at the lighter end of the spectrum. Tailwheel training isn't rocket science & will expand horizons. I do all my maintenance, one hour flying = a 20litre can of mogas. Check out or join the LAA. Cof A is a definate no no......
