Emergency landing ............ Field or Motorway ?

[Bloody long way down]

IMO in the UK during the day whatever the circumstances it would be a field therefore not en-dangering the lives of those in moving traffic.. .. .However at night especially in the UK with a cloud cover most of the time you would not be able to distinguish a field from a lake until its too late! Not only that but also the black patch (that you assume to be a field) whats in it? Just a field or maybe a house/Barns? or even a small village? If there was a power cut however, you would not be able to see a whole town. So IMO an emergency landing at night would have to be on a lit road even if I do manage to take out a lamp post. If you dont have this option then I guess you have no choice other than to aim and pray.. .. .Take into account also that with a dark field at night with no lighting you will have no depth perception and this will bring you slamming into the ground anyway. Most incidents that happen at night whilst carrying out a normal night VFR landing occur due to the pilot not being able to judge the approach.. .. .The chances of a field being empty is quite high however I'm sure most of you have come across the 50:50:90 rule? 50% chance of getting it right, 50% chance of getting it wrong and 90% chance that you'll choose the wrong one.. .. .Happy Landings to you all!!!

[Tinstaafl]

Too many variables to be able to make a categorical decision for one, and against the other.. .. .Better to consider both field and road as available then eliminate the more unsuitable at the time.. .. .There are catches and benefits with either option that must be considered on a case-by-case basis.. .. .Obstacles apply to both choices as does length available, secondary options if it all turns awry etc etc etc. .. .Traffic is somewhat unique to roads, but soft/boggy surfaces & furrows are more an artifact of fields & paddocks.. .. .Some fields allow a multitude of landing directions (think 'all over airfields') while roads generally offer two (excusing junctions & roundabouts!). .. .Some roads are easily defined at night due to traffic ('doh!') or streetlights (also 'doh!'). . .. .Areas of water, although entailing a ditching, are easily seen at night if you look towards the light ie the moon but have a good chance of being clear of obstacles.. .. .So, too many variables, advantages & disadvantages to preempt one decision over another. It will reduce to the best choice you can make on the day based on what you can see & already know and can deduce.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

The original question was a choice between a wet soft field or a road.. .. .The answer is obviously a road if it is safe to land on it.. .. .One other observation there are many people who read this stuff besides those from the British Isles, beyond all doubt Britain does have very few roads that are suitable to land on.( At least from what I have seen. ). .. . North America and Australia on the other hand have thousands of them.. .. .Now go back and read my first comment, i.e. only choose a road if it is safe to land there.. .. .Quite simple really. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .Oh, I just can't resist this comment::: We don't have JAR and JAA either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. ............ . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Monocock]

Cat driver is speaking a lot of sense and he has repeated himself three times.. .. .IF IT IS SAFE, LAND ON THE ROAD. . .. .IF IT IS NOT, TAKE THE FIELD.. .. .As a farmer/aircraft owner I often look down whilst flying and wonder where I might head for in an emergency.. .. .The facts are straight forward; if you can see sheep, go for the field. . .. .* Green fields between May and July might be 3 feet tall in crop.. .. .* Brown or green fields between October and March may be recently cultivated and you WILL somersault on impact.. .. .* As someone mentioned earlier, cattle DONT move!. .. .* Any field with "tramlines" (tractor wheel marks) should be avoided. Field too wet or crop too tall.. .. .* Between August and October, any green field will be grass/set-a-side and will be the best option to head for.. .. .Sorry to get techy but I really wouldn't like to ditch my plane on the M4 and have some law suit against me for damaging some rep's Vectra.

[willbav8r]

Here in the good ole US of A, I have made the following, general assumption (actual conditions notwithstanding);. .. .Daytime: . .. .Field if safest.. . . .Road only if little traffic, or big 6 lane hwy with plenty of spacing. Likely to still opt for the field if available. .. .Nightime:. .. .Road.. .. .We had someone set down on a freeway not too long ago. The pilot managed to drift over to the right lane, and get onto the hard shoulder (well, halfway). . .. .But I have to admit, I would feel just about as sick as could be if I managed to walk whilst making a mess of a car and its' occupants.. .. .Anybody here put down in a field?

[LowNSlow]

Everytime I go flying Will, as I suspect is the case with monocock <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Cat driver and tins good answers and good point re: not only UK pilots on Pprune <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> . .. .Oh by the way Cat, you can have JAA and JAR if you want them, I'm sure we have a few beurocrats to spare <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .Edited for bod, bid errr bad spelling. . . . <small>[ 21 March 2002, 07:54: Message edited by: LowNSlow ]</small>

[RotorHorn]

Monocock - thanks for the good advice. . .. .I was also told as a helo pilot that in a ploughed field, I should land across the ruts - so the skids don't get stuck in the tramlines and roll us over if we're slightly off track.. .. .p.s. FYI - British Aerospace landed a Jaguar fighter on the M55 when it was being built to see how practical motorway operations might be. Must have been a tight fit under the bridges....!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> . .. .Course in an R22 we don't need long stretches of tarmac - just a 40 foot square and prayer... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />. . . . <small>[ 21 March 2002, 15:30: Message edited by: Rotor Horn ]</small>

[poetpilot]

I was taught that:. .. .Sheep herd together and all run the same way. .. .Cows stand still, but they'll be curious & crowd around once you've stopped (and they'll lick/eat & trample fabric aeroplanes).. .. .Horses are entirely unpredictable & should be avoided.. .. .Sod's law when it happens to me it'll be over an emu farm.......

[yellowperil]

sheep also jump which could be a bit of a distraction when you're trying to hold off... Horses as well as being unpredictable also frighten easily which could lead them to going lame -or so the owner will claim. For this reason race courses aren't the best place to put down...!!!. .. .As a glider pilot, I don't know much about laning on motorways, not would I want to, but field landings are pretty frequent. Therefore, a hierarchy of fields have been developed with set-aside/ cut fields at tht top, and animals/ tramlines etc at the bottom; and all the perils and pitfalls of everything in between.. .. .Have a look at the site <a href="http://www.field-landings.co.uk" target="_blank">www.field-landings.co.uk</a> for more info on this. .. .yp

[Spacer]

Guys, I feel that the road option is straight out of the movies. You will never find one straight enough with no obstructions, so I think I'd just go with the sensible option of considering abandoning or a forced landing. If there was a perfectly sraight road with no traffic or obstacles, then I might consider it, but sod's law dictates that you will be nowhere near it when your engine fails.

[Genghis the Engineer]

I'd venture that it would depend what I was flying.. .. .In a microlight, C150, J-3, glider etc. the wingspan is significant and the landing roll short. In those cases, I think the field is almost invariably the best answer - the long flat surface of a road isn't necessary, wingtip clearance is.. .. .In something like a PA28, the landing roll is long, the wingspan relatively short and you've got a good chance of landing down the middle of a road and missing lampposts, etc. down the sides. But, it needs a lot of length to land on, and unless you get a stunning field, you're almost certain to hit something in a field landing so the motorway MIGHT be a good option.. .. .On a british motorway, I'd land with the flow of traffic. The traffic will be going rather faster than your approach speed, so will see you flying in front of them with a closure rate (them on you) of perhaps 30mph and have adequate opportunity to slow and stop. Land head-on, adding your 50-70mph approach to the traffic's 60-90, and I think the odds of avoiding a major accident are slim.. .. .Personal opinion only, all my forced landings have been succesfully in fields, in microlights.. .. .G

[julian storey]

Generally, I think you would need to be some kind of lunatic to land on a motorway following an engine failure.. .. .The only time that I might consider it, would be following an engine failure at night. Then, as a very last resort if the road was fairly quiet I suppose I might be tempted to give it a go.

[Chuck Ellsworth]

julian:. .. .I as well as the rest of the readers here would like to learn as much as possible about flying so maybe you can elaborate on your night langings on motorways?. .. .If it is dark how do you see overpasses, power poles and electrical and telephone wires? In fact how do you see the motorway if everything is dark?. .. .Also I am sure what you meant to say is only a lunitic would land on a motorway if the amount of traffic or obstructions made it unsafe? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .. .................. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[Final 3 Greens]

Cat Driver. .. .A Seabee eh? I admire anyone who can land on water as I have enough trouble with terra firma sans currents, waves logs etc!. .. .We have a lovely PBY (I think its a PBY, definitely a generic Catalina) based at our local field and also a rather sad one wihc is an ex water bomber that hasn't flown for years.. .. .Best wishes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[WGW]

Think I'd prefer a motorway at night to a dark field. Not that I've ever done it, but I'd use my remaining height to dive low over the traffic in the direction it's going. Any car's going to come to halt if a plane swoops down in front of them, but you needn't cause them to do an emergency stop and get shunted. Once the traffic under you has stopped, you put your flaps in, kill your airspeed to less than the traffic in front, which you can't fail to miss if they keep moving faster than you are. Aim to land on the hard shoulder - only one lane would need to swerve round you if it came to it and you can pull off onto the verge once your speed is low enough. Motorways tend to be lit from the centre, not the edge, so the most you'd take out is a couple of 100yard markers. And if you're unlucky, maybe an SOS phone...

[Chuck Ellsworth]

F3G:. .. .I see you are at North Weald.. .. .Yes, the PBY in the hangar is N9521C I ferried it from Johannesburg two years ago, it has been sold to a buyer in Virginia Beach Va. and we will ferry it when the weather over the North Atlantic warms up.. .. .Will be doing some test flying with it at N. Weald this spring as we are changing an engine on it. We flew it for a movie by Merimax last July, it is without a doubt the best PBY restoration left in the world.. .. .The orange PBY parked outside is an ex Avalon Aviation waterbomber a PBY6A. I used to fly it in Canada somewhere around 1975.. .. .By the way flying on water is no big deal, to bad you Brits don't have a floatplane group.. .. .Anyhow maybe I will see you at N. weald in the spring and we can have a coffee at the squadron resturant??. .. .And for some entertainment we can watch some of the Yak 50 guys wrassle with their airplanes trying to land them?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="smile.gif" /> . .................. . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" />

[gasax]

At the risk of being repetative be very very careful with roads - even in the US!. .. ."Although AVweb has reported recently on several successful incidents of pilots landing their crippled planes on highways, a Bonanza pilot in California was not so fortunate this week. The Raytheon Bonanza 35 pilot was attempting a forced landing on Interstate 40 near Barstow, Calif., Monday when he hit three vehicles, killing himself and injuring four people on the ground. One person in a pickup struck by the aircraft was seriously injured. Shortly before the crash, the pilot radioed Los Angeles controllers to tell them he was having problems with his oil pressure and was going to make an emergency landing on the interstate, said Jerry Snyder, public affairs officer for the FAA. As the Bonanza came in to land, one of its wheels struck a pickup, and then a wing struck another pickup, shearing off its roof and injuring four people inside. The plane then flipped over, Peterson said. Barstow is about 150 miles east of Los Angeles.". .. .Here it would seem was a guy who decided the road was the answer - regardless of the traffic levels. Such fixation is by no means unusual - particular when you already have something of a 'mindset'. Get the lawyers are still dining on his carcass!. .. .Happy landings!

[Reichman]

Having read all of the above posts with regards to landing in fields or on a motorway I have a few points to make:. .. .The first aim of a forced landing in all circumstances is to, at best, walk away uninjured, and at worst, live to tell the tale.. . . .This whole idea of people trying to land on motorwayss/roads smacks of the very dangerous and foolhardy practice of trying not to damage the aeroplane. History (and countless accident reports) proves that this usually ends up with a far worse and usually fatal result.. .. .Glider pilots, who know a lot about landing in fields have some very good rules for landing out. The first one is SIZE. A huge field is the easiest thing in the world to land in because:. .. .a) You can land in any direction.. .b) You can afford to miss your aiming point.. .c) It doesn't matter if you're too fast. . .. .There are more hazards involved in a motorway landing than any other surface (apart from a housing estate!). And the major hazard is to poor joe public minding his own business driving home from work when some plank lands his PA28 on him(I can see the insurance report and the subsequent court case now).. .. .Don't try to save the plane. Save yourself first, anything else is a bonus.. .. .Luv. .. .Reichman

[North Eastern Boy]

I think you would be very lucky to be in such circumstances that a road would present itself as an ideal forced landing runway!!. .Bridges, Lampposts, signposts, telegraph poles with wire you cannot see etc.... Just think. Its a disaster waiting to happen. . .True, you can get some of these in a field but at least there you dont have to worry about other traffic. You do have a responsibility as a pilot not to put others on the ground at risk too.. .. .I have also pondered this too, long and hard, subsequently deciding that it wasn't a good option and better to dismiss it totally than to forever consider it as a possibility.. .For the record, Gary Newman (New Wave Pop Star?)has done this but it was years ago and I was just a kid!! . .Maybe he can help?. .Stil, dont do it is my judgement.

[Kermit 180]

Interesting topic that, often given it much thought myself. There are many highways here in NZ that arent all that busy, in fact I would say that many of them would make good landing opprtunities should the donk quit. I have some pictures i cut out of a newspaper some time ago, and I scanned one of them and the article into my computer and into an online album.

http://photos.yahoo.com/flyjoe180 Go to the GA Safety album and you will see C152 FLWOP Highway. There is an article and a picture for you to see.

Regards,

Kermie