Redhill - do they want any flying?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Its not just the management of Redhill we're slagging off and I don't know who the ATCO's are now but its sounds like it hasn't changed much in the last 10-15 years.
What do you get when you mix indifference, arrogance and incompetence?
The same as a visit to Redhill!
What do you get when you mix indifference, arrogance and incompetence?
The same as a visit to Redhill!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If the likes of Redhill and Fairoaks (who are and have always suffered from NIMBY problems) really want to stay in existence in the long term they really should buck up their ideas and avtually start giving some service to their GA customers.
When requested to support a campaign recently to fight a proposal to restrict light aviation in Surrey, I came very close to siding with the opposition for the treatment I have recieved from these two Gestapo airfields. Take a leaf out of White Waltham's and Popham's books rather than just sitting there heah in hands saying why don't people visit us any more.
When requested to support a campaign recently to fight a proposal to restrict light aviation in Surrey, I came very close to siding with the opposition for the treatment I have recieved from these two Gestapo airfields. Take a leaf out of White Waltham's and Popham's books rather than just sitting there heah in hands saying why don't people visit us any more.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: North West UK
Posts: 390
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hi,
Sounds like Redhill should really become FIS,at Barton we handle more traffic then Redhill on FIS.
FISOs aren't covered by the rules governing breaks, just the health and safety break of once every four hours; although when busy we usually work dual shifts, one hour on, one off.
FISOs have the authority to issue taxy instructions, and limit access to a busy circuit by holding traffic at the holding point until safe. Additionally we provide traffic info to circuit and local area traffic under a FIS.
Training wise the FISO licence requries self study for a two written exams (or be exempted by holding an ATCO licence or part exempted for a PPL), followed by 40 Hours OTJT followed by a practical test with CAA SRG and a revalidation every 24 months.
IMHO a FIS provides a level safety almost equal to ATC (if pilots are used to it), without the regulation, but with the knowledge that the guy or girl on the R/T is properly licenced and trained.
Squadgy
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Squadgy ]
Sounds like Redhill should really become FIS,at Barton we handle more traffic then Redhill on FIS.
FISOs aren't covered by the rules governing breaks, just the health and safety break of once every four hours; although when busy we usually work dual shifts, one hour on, one off.
FISOs have the authority to issue taxy instructions, and limit access to a busy circuit by holding traffic at the holding point until safe. Additionally we provide traffic info to circuit and local area traffic under a FIS.
Training wise the FISO licence requries self study for a two written exams (or be exempted by holding an ATCO licence or part exempted for a PPL), followed by 40 Hours OTJT followed by a practical test with CAA SRG and a revalidation every 24 months.
IMHO a FIS provides a level safety almost equal to ATC (if pilots are used to it), without the regulation, but with the knowledge that the guy or girl on the R/T is properly licenced and trained.
Squadgy
[ 30 July 2001: Message edited by: Squadgy ]
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Europe
Age: 56
Posts: 409
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Couldn’t agree more about Redhill controllers being unhelpful. I flew in there a few months ago in a helicopter they told me to hover taxi to one point when they knew I wanted to walk to another. After shut down they said no I would have to hover taxi over there in the aircraft. To$$ers. Wasting my time and money.
I refused to fly into there after that. Now I am based in south London I will be spending my time at Biggin or Denham NOT Redhill. Their loss not mine.
I refused to fly into there after that. Now I am based in south London I will be spending my time at Biggin or Denham NOT Redhill. Their loss not mine.
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Uranus
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Up until recently Redhill did have the capacity to provide FIS and for some reason this has been perm withdrawn. On occasions that FIS were in operation at Deadhill they were found to be very helpful and enjoyed their Jobs,only for the ATCO's to return weilding their so called power on a little grassy field with certain controllers clogging up the airwaves loving the sound of their own voice I feel the Dog would have provided a better service. Professional ATCO's are expeditious and have the best interests of the pilots when they are providing their service but Redhill seem to be bored and the inbounds are their targets for light relief.
It's a shame the field could be far better but there seems to be little interest from management to promote movements and more interest in next years company cars......
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Knobrot ]
It's a shame the field could be far better but there seems to be little interest from management to promote movements and more interest in next years company cars......
[ 31 July 2001: Message edited by: Knobrot ]
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The 'Standard Departure' terminology at Redhill was introduced to reduce RT clutter since, particularly when in the Bristow training school heydays of the 90s with its two B206, six R22 and two T67s, let alone all the other aircraft,it was difficult to get a word in edgeways. Other airfields, like Bournemouth, use the same terminolgy and it works.
So why is RH ATC only? AFIS worked even in those busy days.
For cheering news of August closures, see the latest NOTAMS!!
So why is RH ATC only? AFIS worked even in those busy days.
For cheering news of August closures, see the latest NOTAMS!!
Why do it if it's not fun?
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Bournemouth
Posts: 4,779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yogi, what if I fly a white aircraft? Presumably if the ATCO allows me to land, that means he's not very good? And if he's excellent, I've got no chance???
FFF
----------
FFF
----------
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: SURREY, U.K.
Posts: 214
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Having flown from Shoreham for a number of years, and before that, Popham, I decided to check out on a new aeroplane type, the Katana. The nearest field offering the DA20 was Redhill. I arrived at "Dreadhill" at the appointed time, and check instructor and myself climbed into aircraft. Did checks, started the clockwork, called Tower. (This about 1055 BST.) Requested taxi for the runway (A 1 minute jaunt) and was denied! Due to closure of ATC at 1100BST. The circuit was near enough empty! Instructed to shut down and wait 30 minutes. This was an embarassment for the club (Although I certainly dont hold them responsible for the Tower controllers action), and a pain in the 'arris for both of us.....What a shambolic operation. It makes you wonder if they need our business? I also have a surprising story about Fairoaks. I visited the Flying club there some years ago, when I was building hours, to obtain rental prices. I walked into the clubhouse, and was studiously ignored by ALL the staff for some minutes. When I eventually asked to see someone about prices, I was grudgingly given a tatty price list (A year out of date would you believe!). I asked what (If any) discount would be given if I chose to invest a £1000 up front. "NONE" was the surly reply! Needless to say, I departed rapidly, and went elsewhere. And then they wonder why we go to the USA to fly - in better aeroplanes, with no landing fees, and staff who genuinely want to offer customer service. Some airfields DESERVE to close, and Fairoaks is one of them.
I can recommend Shoreham which is generally quite good, with some nice countryside.
Tailwinds
Gad! I feel better for that!
I can recommend Shoreham which is generally quite good, with some nice countryside.
Tailwinds
Gad! I feel better for that!
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Following on from SKYYACHTs comments I would agree. After a recent visit to Fairoaks we have made it our policy never to return. The extremely high landing fee provided us with no ATC service, a miserable radio operator,limited parking space and few facilities for our passengers.Emergency services available appeared to be a guy in a LandRover with a bucket of sand. For that sort of fee I would expect a lot more eg see what Southend and Manston offer and both are cheaper! The same goes for Redhill. If we need to get to that neck of the woods Blackbushe or Biggin are our prefered choices now.Shoreham is one place we often find ourselves operating out of.Always a warm welcome and excellent facilities. ATC however appears to be undermanned and the freq. is often on the side of dangerous, with no time to get in even essential calls. Pity any student on a first solo or cross country trying 123.15 for the first time.When they can split the freq. the ATC service is excellent. But be warned.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Gatwick
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wonder just how many pages will have to appear on this thread before either of these two apalling airfields get round to replying. No doubt they would probably deem that to be beneath them!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's happened to me too at Redhill. Taxied to A1 ready to depart (4th in line) and guess what? Too late and taxied home!
A week later and more of a worry though was the traffic circling over Sevenoaks waiting for the airport to re-open. Several confused pilots not sure why there was no response on 119.60. Wonder what the Surrey Plan has to say about all that?!
Spare a thought for the controllers though - Not exactly overpaid for what can be a pretty stressful job. Still, a bit of customer service would be appreciated by those on the receiving end.
A week later and more of a worry though was the traffic circling over Sevenoaks waiting for the airport to re-open. Several confused pilots not sure why there was no response on 119.60. Wonder what the Surrey Plan has to say about all that?!
Spare a thought for the controllers though - Not exactly overpaid for what can be a pretty stressful job. Still, a bit of customer service would be appreciated by those on the receiving end.
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: england
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Must admit i used to avoid flying into redhill like the plague. Then i went and bought a share in an aircraft there.
Have found that once they get to know your aircraft they are not so bad. As my aircraft is pretty nippy they let you cut the circuit with early turns up the north south runway on take-off and cut infront of people who require larger circuits.
Must be said that lots more flying would get done at these places if there was less talking. Also find shoreham a pain... giving you clearance limits with noone else about?
My opinion is in agreeance with the unicom, check out your own wind, runway, traffic etc.
Trouble is too many schools now train the pilot to be a future commercial pilot and expect those services. eg teaching students to fly the finals on papi etc etc. More grass roots aviation needs to be taught.
Finally.... Dunsfold. Lots of people have spent many many days trying to get rid of it as a airfield. Please dont open it up again. The reason? It is where i practise my display sequence and aeros..... perfect.
Chaps and chapesses please look out when flying around dunsfold as i will be overhead in the pitts
Have found that once they get to know your aircraft they are not so bad. As my aircraft is pretty nippy they let you cut the circuit with early turns up the north south runway on take-off and cut infront of people who require larger circuits.
Must be said that lots more flying would get done at these places if there was less talking. Also find shoreham a pain... giving you clearance limits with noone else about?
My opinion is in agreeance with the unicom, check out your own wind, runway, traffic etc.
Trouble is too many schools now train the pilot to be a future commercial pilot and expect those services. eg teaching students to fly the finals on papi etc etc. More grass roots aviation needs to be taught.
Finally.... Dunsfold. Lots of people have spent many many days trying to get rid of it as a airfield. Please dont open it up again. The reason? It is where i practise my display sequence and aeros..... perfect.
Chaps and chapesses please look out when flying around dunsfold as i will be overhead in the pitts
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Whilst I don't work at Redhill, I feel it's relevant to this thread to explain the rules regarding ATCO's breaks.
All UK ATCO's are legally obliged to comply with the Scheme for the Regulation of ATC Officers Hours (SRATCOH) which is laid down in a delightful publication called CAP670 Air Traffic Services Safety Requirements.
Basically, after working a maximum of 2 hours, we have to have a break, out of the ATC environment, of at least 30 minutes. At some quiet airfields (this may apply at Redhill, but I doubt it) Providers of Air Traffic Services can apply to modify the requiremnet, extending the duty period to 4 hours.
Incidentley, Redhill have been advertising in Flight recently for 2 ATCO's, which obviously shows some degree of commitment to keeping ATC running.
Surely, they publish the times when ATC will be closed? Bit silly to ask for taxy 3 minutes beforehand, perhaps??
All UK ATCO's are legally obliged to comply with the Scheme for the Regulation of ATC Officers Hours (SRATCOH) which is laid down in a delightful publication called CAP670 Air Traffic Services Safety Requirements.
Basically, after working a maximum of 2 hours, we have to have a break, out of the ATC environment, of at least 30 minutes. At some quiet airfields (this may apply at Redhill, but I doubt it) Providers of Air Traffic Services can apply to modify the requiremnet, extending the duty period to 4 hours.
Incidentley, Redhill have been advertising in Flight recently for 2 ATCO's, which obviously shows some degree of commitment to keeping ATC running.
Surely, they publish the times when ATC will be closed? Bit silly to ask for taxy 3 minutes beforehand, perhaps??
Simple solution I should have thought. Simple declare the airfield unlicensed for that period of controller break. It stops any ab-initio flying training, but if the local school expects it, they only do conversion training, etc. during that slot. Then everybody makes traffic calls, the controllers drink tea, and everybody's happy.
G
G
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: South East England
Posts: 586
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Nice idea but I believe when ATC go off watch at EGKR most of the zone is handed back to the Gatwick zone controllers and for that reason no out of hours departures and arrivals are allowed.I regularly instruct out of there and drive in the 40 miles rather than fly my light aircraft which is hangared a mile from where I live but its the cost of landing as at Biggin that deters me.The controllers are good chaps but grossly overworked at peak times,sometimes a ground,tower and approach are needed!!.More enthusiastic management would help to.I,m told Dunsfold will be be dug up as that was part of the original planning conditions when the forerunners of Bae originally got permission to use the place,I,ve been down that road.