Upholsterers
Upholsterers
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I can recommend an excellent person for upholstery. He gave my A/C a superb set of new seats and I know they do the full monty (head linings, carpets, seats, panels etc.). They are based in Andover (Thruxton is their nearest) and if you mail me I wil give you their details.
Chow
Chow
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leather - no fire problem ? ...please don't necessarily believe that yarn. I spend a lot of my time involved with seating design, certification, and manufacture and the reality is quite different.
There is often a problem (principally) with the dyes and other treatments in the leathers.
Generally, for horizontal burn requirements, the leathers are usually ok. However, if you elect to go with a horizontal burn test for your interior, then make sure that you don't get injured in the prang ... and get out ... real quick .....
For vertical burn tests, it is a case of suck it and see for each dye lot.
For the flamethrower test, leather can be a real pain. Again, it is a case of suck it and see.
But, leather, no problem ? .. not necessarily so .....
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 03 June 2001).]
There is often a problem (principally) with the dyes and other treatments in the leathers.
Generally, for horizontal burn requirements, the leathers are usually ok. However, if you elect to go with a horizontal burn test for your interior, then make sure that you don't get injured in the prang ... and get out ... real quick .....
For vertical burn tests, it is a case of suck it and see for each dye lot.
For the flamethrower test, leather can be a real pain. Again, it is a case of suck it and see.
But, leather, no problem ? .. not necessarily so .....
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 03 June 2001).]
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John
Thanks for the input. I always thought that leather is safe. I know someone who was inside the flames, not a pleasant sight.
I have ordered the hides from the company that supplies Piper so I believe that it should be to standard. Yet, I will appreciate if you can explain a bit more about the hazards. I have noticed that the shop that will perform the work for me uses foam for the base and the back. That made me think. Is it safe? You know, all my assets are there.
Thanks.
Thanks for the input. I always thought that leather is safe. I know someone who was inside the flames, not a pleasant sight.
I have ordered the hides from the company that supplies Piper so I believe that it should be to standard. Yet, I will appreciate if you can explain a bit more about the hazards. I have noticed that the shop that will perform the work for me uses foam for the base and the back. That made me think. Is it safe? You know, all my assets are there.
Thanks.
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AC-DC,
Leather is a fine dressing - don't get me wrong.
But be aware that there are different flame standards - as in horses for courses. I see that you are in the old country so your rules may be a little different to the US standards with which I usually work.
Consider that
(a) most of the usually encountered civil commercial flame Standards are not of much use in, or relevance to, the aircraft situation
(b) light aircraft of the FAR23 variety only require a flame resistant performance which usually is demonstrated by a simple bunsen burner test with the test specimens held horizontally
(c) heavy aircraft have a requirement for a similar test but with the specimen held vertically. This is rather more demanding of the specimen.
(d) larger aircraft have a comparatively involved flamethrower type of test requirement which is very demanding - leathers can have some considerable difficulty with this test in particular, as we have experienced with some recent jobs.
I would presume that the hides to which you refer are supplied to the horizontal test Standard. Consider that you might prefer to have a better chance of post prang evacuation if you spec a vertical burn test performance, as is your option for all fabrics in the interior refurb.
While not speaking to leather specifically in the following comment, be aware that many (especially "ordinary" commercially sourced fabrics) may perform nicely on the horizontal test, but burn with a most impressive display on the vertical. Additionally, many commercial fabrics, some with commercial flammability certification, burn like a bonfire even with the horizontal test.
This is a sufficient problem that the manufacturer with which I was involved over many years adopted a policy that we would use only vertical performance fabrics unless the customer insisted on a fabric which passed the horizontal but not the vertical test requirement.
So far as the foams go, there are many fire retardant foams in the marketplace.
Presuming that your aircraft is a lightie, I suggest that you consider making your refurb a FAR 25 vertical burn standard. It ought not cost you much more, if at all, but is worth a degree of peace of mind .....
I know what my approach would be if I owned the aircraft ....
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 04 June 2001).]
Leather is a fine dressing - don't get me wrong.
But be aware that there are different flame standards - as in horses for courses. I see that you are in the old country so your rules may be a little different to the US standards with which I usually work.
Consider that
(a) most of the usually encountered civil commercial flame Standards are not of much use in, or relevance to, the aircraft situation
(b) light aircraft of the FAR23 variety only require a flame resistant performance which usually is demonstrated by a simple bunsen burner test with the test specimens held horizontally
(c) heavy aircraft have a requirement for a similar test but with the specimen held vertically. This is rather more demanding of the specimen.
(d) larger aircraft have a comparatively involved flamethrower type of test requirement which is very demanding - leathers can have some considerable difficulty with this test in particular, as we have experienced with some recent jobs.
I would presume that the hides to which you refer are supplied to the horizontal test Standard. Consider that you might prefer to have a better chance of post prang evacuation if you spec a vertical burn test performance, as is your option for all fabrics in the interior refurb.
While not speaking to leather specifically in the following comment, be aware that many (especially "ordinary" commercially sourced fabrics) may perform nicely on the horizontal test, but burn with a most impressive display on the vertical. Additionally, many commercial fabrics, some with commercial flammability certification, burn like a bonfire even with the horizontal test.
This is a sufficient problem that the manufacturer with which I was involved over many years adopted a policy that we would use only vertical performance fabrics unless the customer insisted on a fabric which passed the horizontal but not the vertical test requirement.
So far as the foams go, there are many fire retardant foams in the marketplace.
Presuming that your aircraft is a lightie, I suggest that you consider making your refurb a FAR 25 vertical burn standard. It ought not cost you much more, if at all, but is worth a degree of peace of mind .....
I know what my approach would be if I owned the aircraft ....
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 04 June 2001).]
Guest
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Pdub,
While I can't speak to what foams are available in England, your comment highlights my concern.
The Standards to which the foams may comply is very likely to be one or other of the various civil tests.
My experience over the past 25 years or so in Australia, but looking at materials sourced both locally and imported, is that the existence of a domestic Standard compliance means nothing. When tested to the relevant aircraft Standard, the fabric might perform well, or go up like a bonfire. The latter is the more usual observation.
Please, just make sure that you test the prefered materials first - by batch lot. You ought not to give any reliance to domestic or commercial test requirement compliance.
Ask yourself why the airlines don't go to the local department store for their upholstery supplies ......
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 06 June 2001).]
While I can't speak to what foams are available in England, your comment highlights my concern.
The Standards to which the foams may comply is very likely to be one or other of the various civil tests.
My experience over the past 25 years or so in Australia, but looking at materials sourced both locally and imported, is that the existence of a domestic Standard compliance means nothing. When tested to the relevant aircraft Standard, the fabric might perform well, or go up like a bonfire. The latter is the more usual observation.
Please, just make sure that you test the prefered materials first - by batch lot. You ought not to give any reliance to domestic or commercial test requirement compliance.
Ask yourself why the airlines don't go to the local department store for their upholstery supplies ......
[This message has been edited by john_tullamarine (edited 06 June 2001).]
