Why do you like flying?
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
Tigger, Bach was a German guy who wrote some snappy tunes in the early C18. 
Actually, the Bach referred to above is Richard Bach, an American pilot and author, who writes stuff which some regard as insightful and inspiring and others (well, me) regard as psychobabble. He is perhaps best known for "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" which is a book about, er, a seagull, called, er, Jonathan who achieves transcendant spiritual whatever through the joys of flight. File under Watership Down and similar talking animals drivel.
Just before I retreat to the flame proof bunker, let me add that St-Ex is worth perservering with: try Vol de Nuit (Night Flight)or Pilote de Guerre (Flight to Arras). The Penguin translations are probably the best, ou peut etre essayer en Francaise? Mais non, parce que donc il faut vous appeller Stampe, et nous avons deja un ppruneur qui s'appelle Stampe et qui fait pas les postes naifs.
PS: Tigger, we love you,
(sings....)
The wonderful thing about Tigger
Is Tigger's a wonderful thing
His undercart's made out of rubber
His tailskid is hanging on springs
He's bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy*
Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
But the most Wonderful thing about Tigger of all
Is heeeeeeeeeeee's the only one.
*until he (1) goes around, (2) ground loops or (3) stuffs into the hedge
Edit: Old Buck 5/8/01 I narrowly avoided (3) by doing (2) as a consequence of failing to do (1).
:o :o :o :o
[ 06 August 2001: Message edited by: FNG ]
Actually, the Bach referred to above is Richard Bach, an American pilot and author, who writes stuff which some regard as insightful and inspiring and others (well, me) regard as psychobabble. He is perhaps best known for "Jonathan Livingstone Seagull" which is a book about, er, a seagull, called, er, Jonathan who achieves transcendant spiritual whatever through the joys of flight. File under Watership Down and similar talking animals drivel.
Just before I retreat to the flame proof bunker, let me add that St-Ex is worth perservering with: try Vol de Nuit (Night Flight)or Pilote de Guerre (Flight to Arras). The Penguin translations are probably the best, ou peut etre essayer en Francaise? Mais non, parce que donc il faut vous appeller Stampe, et nous avons deja un ppruneur qui s'appelle Stampe et qui fait pas les postes naifs.
PS: Tigger, we love you,
(sings....)
The wonderful thing about Tigger
Is Tigger's a wonderful thing
His undercart's made out of rubber
His tailskid is hanging on springs
He's bouncy bouncy bouncy bouncy*
Fun Fun Fun Fun Fun
But the most Wonderful thing about Tigger of all
Is heeeeeeeeeeee's the only one.
*until he (1) goes around, (2) ground loops or (3) stuffs into the hedge
Edit: Old Buck 5/8/01 I narrowly avoided (3) by doing (2) as a consequence of failing to do (1).
:o :o :o :o
[ 06 August 2001: Message edited by: FNG ]
Victim of Blackmailing Scouser
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 113
Likes: 0
From: Zürich, Switzerland (But a Brit)
Hi All,
Agree regarding St Ex, although some might find his proto-existentialist musings a little off putting if they're simply looking for a flying yarn.
The early Richard Back, i.e. pre-JLS toss, are simply fantastic. Bach decided to change the direction of his writing subsequently and blew it, IMHO. Too much Acid in the sixties? Probably.
Final point: I wish some of you lot would stop trashing young TIGER_MOTH.
This kid is obviously fascinated with all things flying, although he's being a wee bit tardy about actually climbing into an aircraft. That's probably due to money, isn't it? We can put him in the same bracket as those snot-nosed kids we see peering through the wire fencing at airports, who dream of the day when they can themselves take to the air. Such kids are to be encouraged, not humiliated. I was one of 'em.
TIGER_MOTH, stick around, save up a little money, go flying, join us. It really is the blast that you think it is.
TW
Agree regarding St Ex, although some might find his proto-existentialist musings a little off putting if they're simply looking for a flying yarn.
The early Richard Back, i.e. pre-JLS toss, are simply fantastic. Bach decided to change the direction of his writing subsequently and blew it, IMHO. Too much Acid in the sixties? Probably.
Final point: I wish some of you lot would stop trashing young TIGER_MOTH.
This kid is obviously fascinated with all things flying, although he's being a wee bit tardy about actually climbing into an aircraft. That's probably due to money, isn't it? We can put him in the same bracket as those snot-nosed kids we see peering through the wire fencing at airports, who dream of the day when they can themselves take to the air. Such kids are to be encouraged, not humiliated. I was one of 'em.
TIGER_MOTH, stick around, save up a little money, go flying, join us. It really is the blast that you think it is.
TW
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
Likes: 178
From: UK
Richard Bach is indeed variable.
Reading books like "A gift of wings" or "Biplane" nobody writes better about what it is to be an Aviator.
Reading books like "Bridge across forever" I really wonder what he was smoking.
Some stuff in the middle, like "Jonathon Livingstone Seagull", "Illusions" or "Out of my mind" need a pinch of salt, but are enjoyable.
Incidentally, 3 times I've loaned my copy of "A gift of wings to somebody" who has then given it back half read, telling me that they couldn't bear not to actually own a copy and have gone and bought their own to finish it. Strangely, that's how I met it too.
G
Reading books like "A gift of wings" or "Biplane" nobody writes better about what it is to be an Aviator.
Reading books like "Bridge across forever" I really wonder what he was smoking.
Some stuff in the middle, like "Jonathon Livingstone Seagull", "Illusions" or "Out of my mind" need a pinch of salt, but are enjoyable.
Incidentally, 3 times I've loaned my copy of "A gift of wings to somebody" who has then given it back half read, telling me that they couldn't bear not to actually own a copy and have gone and bought their own to finish it. Strangely, that's how I met it too.
G
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
...so I need to learn to fly before I can appreciate JLS? Looks like I am doomed to remain unenlightened then, judging by the comments of my flying acquaintances on my atttempts at aviation.
Tricky Woo, I agree with you on the subject of T-M, as on most subjects (although remind me to corrrect you one of these days about Julius Ceasar torching the library at Alexandria: it wasn't his fault, really!). T-M, hope you took my remarks in my post above in the spirit in which they were intended. keep posting, and tell us how your lessons are going.
Tricky Woo, I agree with you on the subject of T-M, as on most subjects (although remind me to corrrect you one of these days about Julius Ceasar torching the library at Alexandria: it wasn't his fault, really!). T-M, hope you took my remarks in my post above in the spirit in which they were intended. keep posting, and tell us how your lessons are going.
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 2
From: UK
It was 'A Gift of Wings' that convinced me to take the plunge and learn to fly. My only regret is not doing it sooner.
I find his stuff variable. AGOW, Biplane, Stranger to the Ground are just, for me, the best. Some of his later stuff I found wierd, but I recently read 'Running From Safety' - and parts of that I read and re-read so many times I think the print wore off the page. Not much flying in it, but what writing....
SSD
I find his stuff variable. AGOW, Biplane, Stranger to the Ground are just, for me, the best. Some of his later stuff I found wierd, but I recently read 'Running From Safety' - and parts of that I read and re-read so many times I think the print wore off the page. Not much flying in it, but what writing....
SSD
The Original Whirly
Joined: Feb 1999
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 4,327
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From: Belper, Derbyshire, UK
I read JLS many years ago, and re-read it after learning to fly. Nah, still don't like it - trite rubbish if you ask me, though I hope I haven't upset anyone by saying that. A Gift of Wings and Biplane are very different though - definitely some of my favourite books.
Tricky Woo, thanks for sticking up for Tiger Moth, though perhaps you were just a wee bit patronising. Stick around Tiger, you have as much right to be here as onyone else. Ignore the ageist comments; one thing is guaranteed - you will get older! And ignore people who flame you; it's probably not worth retaliating, though even we've all got annoyed and done so occasionally (like when someone on wannabes said I was talking crap but didn't say why!). You've started some good threads, and some not so good; made some good comments, and some not so good. Just like the rest of us in fact.
Tricky Woo, thanks for sticking up for Tiger Moth, though perhaps you were just a wee bit patronising. Stick around Tiger, you have as much right to be here as onyone else. Ignore the ageist comments; one thing is guaranteed - you will get older! And ignore people who flame you; it's probably not worth retaliating, though even we've all got annoyed and done so occasionally (like when someone on wannabes said I was talking crap but didn't say why!). You've started some good threads, and some not so good; made some good comments, and some not so good. Just like the rest of us in fact.
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
Further revision to question: Why don't we like flying? On the first page of the thread, Wrong Stuff asked why so many people lapse. Is it really as high as 60%? OK, money, family pressures etc must play a big part, but it's possible with a bit of imagination to fly pretty cheaply. Anyone out there who has packed it in and (a) is glad they did (b) wishes they hadn't?
Joined: Apr 2000
Posts: 438
Likes: 3
From: South of YSSY
1. Because it's the best way of getting away from the two-dimensional world of "the ground".
2. Because of the challenge in flying the aircraft the way the manufacturer meant it to be flown and feeling it appreciate careful, confident handling.
3. Because the view's better.
4. Because it's nice to look down on the public from time to time...even if most of them are hiding in their houses.
5. Because I am building happy memories to sustain me in my frail old age.
6. Because each day should be lived as if it's your last...one day it will be.
7. Because without a wife or children I answer to no-one but myself and my maker.
8. Because only pilots and skydivers know why the birds sing.
9. Because each flight teaches something about flying, the atmosphere, and the planet itself.
10. Because in 4.5 billion years time the sun will become a red dwarf and carbonise this incongruous planet and we all should see as much of it as we can before it's gone...forever!
2. Because of the challenge in flying the aircraft the way the manufacturer meant it to be flown and feeling it appreciate careful, confident handling.
3. Because the view's better.
4. Because it's nice to look down on the public from time to time...even if most of them are hiding in their houses.
5. Because I am building happy memories to sustain me in my frail old age.
6. Because each day should be lived as if it's your last...one day it will be.
7. Because without a wife or children I answer to no-one but myself and my maker.
8. Because only pilots and skydivers know why the birds sing.
9. Because each flight teaches something about flying, the atmosphere, and the planet itself.
10. Because in 4.5 billion years time the sun will become a red dwarf and carbonise this incongruous planet and we all should see as much of it as we can before it's gone...forever!
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,856
Likes: 75
From: uk
Apart from Item 7, Critical Mass says it for me. For some strange reason my kids think that my flying added something to their street cred. so maybe that's an additional reason for me.
I once did a phsycometric test which concluded that I was an "artisan" and liked using tools - a bit of a joke as I am hopeless at DIY. I did realise however that an aircraft is the ultimate tool, being three dimensional, and I get incredible satisfaction from making it do precisely what I want it to do with as little effort as possible (not often enough). I get similar satisfaction from driving well and from sailing, but nothing touches flying for the ultimate control in the 3D world of the sky. Throw in the views and variations in weather conditions, even bad, and it does it for me. Even accurate straight and level or a well balanced turn reaches those parts of me that nothing else can.
I once did a phsycometric test which concluded that I was an "artisan" and liked using tools - a bit of a joke as I am hopeless at DIY. I did realise however that an aircraft is the ultimate tool, being three dimensional, and I get incredible satisfaction from making it do precisely what I want it to do with as little effort as possible (not often enough). I get similar satisfaction from driving well and from sailing, but nothing touches flying for the ultimate control in the 3D world of the sky. Throw in the views and variations in weather conditions, even bad, and it does it for me. Even accurate straight and level or a well balanced turn reaches those parts of me that nothing else can.
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,681
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From: Just South of the last ice sheet
The 60% lapse rate is about right from what I've read in the various flying comics. Don't you remember the days after you'd taken all your relatives around the block for an hour? What do I do now? £100 cicuits?I felt the same for a while (bearing in mind I have been an aviation addict since nappy stage) until I was working away from home, went back to the airfield where I'd done 1/2 my PPL and did an IMC and a twin rating. Both great fun and kept my interest going until a previous instructor and mentor pointed the way to cheap(ish) flying via the PFA. End result 2 years with an Aerobat and 4 years with the Cub. Now I get twitchy if I can't go and take the air above the ground bound ones.
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
I have actually started my lessons now, I've had 2 and should have another one tommorrow but the weather doesnt look too good. Its really good. On the first lesson I felt a bit sick and worried that it might not go away n stuff. However the next lesson I took a different travel sickness tablet ( which dont make me drowsy or anything) and I was amazed to find that it completely worked and I felt normal. This was great because I had thought it would take me ages to get over my air sickness especially as it had been so bad. I hope it stays this way. Im up to about ex 6 but lots of things lap over and I was allowed to do a lot of turns last lesson.
Why do it if it's not fun?
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 4,782
Likes: 12
From: Bournemouth
TM,
Congrats on starting lessons - sounds like you're having a good time!
A quick note on sickness - you might like to search the web for aerobatic sights, especially related to aerobatic training. They usually contain lots of good advice on the subject. And make sure your instructor knows if you're feeling a little sick, too.
Anyway, keep having fun while you can - you'll be starting circuits soon, and that's when it starts getting a bit harder.
Take care!
FFF
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Congrats on starting lessons - sounds like you're having a good time!
A quick note on sickness - you might like to search the web for aerobatic sights, especially related to aerobatic training. They usually contain lots of good advice on the subject. And make sure your instructor knows if you're feeling a little sick, too.
Anyway, keep having fun while you can - you'll be starting circuits soon, and that's when it starts getting a bit harder.
Take care!
FFF
--------
Not so N, but still FG
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 1,417
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From: London, UK
TM, let me add my congratulations on starting on your PPL. I hope that you are realising your ambition and doing it in a DH-82a. I had suspected from your other thread on gliding that the cost of the project might have been propelling you in the direction of getting a glider ticket first (not that that would be a bad thing as everyone I speak to who knows about both powered and soaring flight says that gliding promotes good piloting skills and airmanship). Good luck, keep us posted on your progress.
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 214
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From: SURREY, U.K.
Good for you Tiger Moth......dont let the negative attitudes of some put you off......just keep asking questions, and taking lessons.....dont give up, and eventually, you will join us....
Another thought.....try Ernest K Gann for some good stuff, or also another book I just finished, called "More than a Pilot" by Don McVicar.
Tailwinds
Another thought.....try Ernest K Gann for some good stuff, or also another book I just finished, called "More than a Pilot" by Don McVicar.
Tailwinds
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 382
Likes: 10
From: England
Fly in something that isnt a DH82a? Me? Thats crazy talk!
Of course Im learning in a Moth!
I dont think Ill be doing circuits that soon though as I just had another lesson cancelled due to weather and its hard to book them.
Although last lesson I felt fine I think it may have been because it was 2 days after my first lesson so it gave me less time to get "un-used to it" rather than my new travel sickness tablet. If my next lesson doesnt get cancelled then thatll be a 2 week gap so I think I might feel sick again as I find it hard to believe that a little tablet could completely solve my problem. Has anyone ever had a tablet that just miraculously works? Because I think it might have a lot more to do with the gap between flying. Always looking out and forwards and concentrating on flying the plane helps a lot though because Im flying it more rather than being a passenger, which is what a lot of people say.
Then again some of the people there said it might take about 5 hours to get over it( if you get over it and apparently an unlucky few never do) so going from barfing stations one day to feeling fine despite the flight being longer 2 days later seems quick, so maybe it does have something to do with the tablet. I dont know. Do you? Well hopefully Ill find out soon. It is a bit worrying but I suppose feeling fine on my second lesson should be encouraging when I was expecting to take ages to get over it. No one can really know as its down to the individual, some people never get sick.
Im not thinking of doing gliding in the near future but was just curious about the cost because nothing really seems to explain it properly or in terms of £/hr, but I understand it now.
Of course Im learning in a Moth!
I dont think Ill be doing circuits that soon though as I just had another lesson cancelled due to weather and its hard to book them.
Although last lesson I felt fine I think it may have been because it was 2 days after my first lesson so it gave me less time to get "un-used to it" rather than my new travel sickness tablet. If my next lesson doesnt get cancelled then thatll be a 2 week gap so I think I might feel sick again as I find it hard to believe that a little tablet could completely solve my problem. Has anyone ever had a tablet that just miraculously works? Because I think it might have a lot more to do with the gap between flying. Always looking out and forwards and concentrating on flying the plane helps a lot though because Im flying it more rather than being a passenger, which is what a lot of people say.
Then again some of the people there said it might take about 5 hours to get over it( if you get over it and apparently an unlucky few never do) so going from barfing stations one day to feeling fine despite the flight being longer 2 days later seems quick, so maybe it does have something to do with the tablet. I dont know. Do you? Well hopefully Ill find out soon. It is a bit worrying but I suppose feeling fine on my second lesson should be encouraging when I was expecting to take ages to get over it. No one can really know as its down to the individual, some people never get sick.
Im not thinking of doing gliding in the near future but was just curious about the cost because nothing really seems to explain it properly or in terms of £/hr, but I understand it now.