Night Qualification in the UK a waste of money?
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: EuroGA.org
Posts: 13,787
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
dont mind facing the prospect of death when you cant see the terrain if the engine stops.
Not sure what that is telling us... maybe most pilots cannot land in a field in daylight?
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't believe that one should look at the IMCr as essential preparation for a NQ. The whole purpose of the NQ is to be able to fly VFR at night, without doing any actual instrument flying. Flying VFR at night your head should be looking out, not glued to any instruments. They may help, but primary navigation is visual.
The IMCr and the NQ are two completely different qualifications and the conditions for which they are intended are almost mutually exclusive.
I did my NQ at Biggin Hill in an aircraft with only basic VFR gauges, no gyros, a single comm only, its only extras the required navlights. It was interesting to learn to navigate using completely different clues than those conspicuous by day.
As for VFR Night forced landings, I think one can only be sure to pick a suitable landing area if one is very familiar with the terrain -- to the point of knowing most of the dark patches and their nature (land or water, field, forest, slope, what kind of crop, etc.). If the area is not your own back yard, picking a field is pure guesswork.
So, how useful was my NQ? Not very useful in the sense of doing a lot of night VFR flying. In The Netherlands VFR night flight is not allowed. Even if you have an IR you need to fly regularly at night to keep a NQ current, which means access to lighted airports, etc. My NQ lapsed, but the training was fun and the experience is useful -- being able to navigate visually at night could make an instrument failure less critical if it's a clear night with a good moon.
The IMCr and the NQ are two completely different qualifications and the conditions for which they are intended are almost mutually exclusive.
I did my NQ at Biggin Hill in an aircraft with only basic VFR gauges, no gyros, a single comm only, its only extras the required navlights. It was interesting to learn to navigate using completely different clues than those conspicuous by day.
As for VFR Night forced landings, I think one can only be sure to pick a suitable landing area if one is very familiar with the terrain -- to the point of knowing most of the dark patches and their nature (land or water, field, forest, slope, what kind of crop, etc.). If the area is not your own back yard, picking a field is pure guesswork.
So, how useful was my NQ? Not very useful in the sense of doing a lot of night VFR flying. In The Netherlands VFR night flight is not allowed. Even if you have an IR you need to fly regularly at night to keep a NQ current, which means access to lighted airports, etc. My NQ lapsed, but the training was fun and the experience is useful -- being able to navigate visually at night could make an instrument failure less critical if it's a clear night with a good moon.
I guess they don't allow us to fly VFR at night in the Netherlands because of the huge amount of unpopulated, unlit wilderness, and the rugged hills and mountains that we might fly into...
Or it may be because the Dutch regulators are not very smart, and also hate GA...
Or it may be because the Dutch regulators are not very smart, and also hate GA...
I don't believe that one should look at the IMCr as essential preparation for a NQ. The whole purpose of the NQ is to be able to fly VFR at night, without doing any actual instrument flying
The IMCr and the NQ are two completely different qualifications and the conditions for which they are intended are almost mutually exclusive.
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Europe
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Katamarino
I guess they don't allow us to fly VFR at night in the Netherlands because of the huge amount of unpopulated, unlit wilderness, and the rugged hills and mountains that we might fly into...
Or it may be because the Dutch regulators are not very smart, and also hate GA... 
Actually, there is some VFR night flying from time to time. It takes a huge amount of organising, can only be done in the circuit, and a safety pilot with a full and current IR must be in the right hand seat.
Or else you just go to Belgium, or Germany, or France, or the UK.
Originally Posted by UV
Well the Night Rating used to required 5 hours Instrument Flying experience and the Helicopter Night Rating still requires 10 hours IF.
I'd think that you'd need enough ambient light to recognize a horizon at least. Plus a cloudless sky -- or at least minimal cloud cover that won't affect the flight's ground cover at any time. The conditions that make VFR night flying safe are pretty rare.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Schedule 4 of the Air Navigation Order:
(2) Aeroplanes
a) flying for purposes other than
commercial air transport or public
transport and
i) flying by night
C, D, G(2) and
(3) and GG
Scale D
(1) In the case of a helicopter or gyroplane, a slip indicator.
(2) In the case of any other flying machine either:
(a)
a turn indicator and a slip indicator; or
(b) a gyroscopic bank and pitch indicator and a gyroscopic direction indicator.
(3) A sensitive pressure altimeter adjustable for any sea level barometric pressure which
the weather report or forecasts available to the commander of the aircraft indicate is
likely to be encountered during the intended flight.
a) flying for purposes other than
commercial air transport or public
transport and
i) flying by night
C, D, G(2) and
(3) and GG
Scale D
(1) In the case of a helicopter or gyroplane, a slip indicator.
(2) In the case of any other flying machine either:
(a)
a turn indicator and a slip indicator; or
(b) a gyroscopic bank and pitch indicator and a gyroscopic direction indicator.
(3) A sensitive pressure altimeter adjustable for any sea level barometric pressure which
the weather report or forecasts available to the commander of the aircraft indicate is
likely to be encountered during the intended flight.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Londonish
Posts: 779
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rather ironic that you have to have instrument time to get the rating, yet (possibly) can fly without. Love regulators - usually they over legislate, but even if you can, it doesn't mean you *should*: Flight at night without instruments would be extremely limiting, and require ambient light. Not good if the ambient light went out - in truth it makes little difference whether the air is transparent or not if there's nothing to see.
Done properly and properly equipped, night flight need not be anywhere near as limiting as suggested - depending upon your attitude to the perenial engine stopping question.
Done properly and properly equipped, night flight need not be anywhere near as limiting as suggested - depending upon your attitude to the perenial engine stopping question.
Here in North America, I ended up doing a considerable amount of my powered XC at night.
A large portion of engine failures are due to running out of fuel -- easily prevented by flight planning and looking into the tank. I once paid for fuel where the a/c had been tied down for the week, pulled the caps and found next to nothing
The engine failure situation that most worries me is the initial takeoff segment. Even most piston twins are highly vulnerable at that time.
Forced landing odds are pretty good. Flying into terrain or water in or out of control is by far the major killer at night. Instrument skills are required as yes, you do fly into cloud on occasion as well as black holes and hazy conditions and had better be ready for it as Kennedy was not.
I too go onto the AH on lift off at night as there's a number of people who have flown perfectly good airplanes into the ground shortly after takeoff.
A large portion of engine failures are due to running out of fuel -- easily prevented by flight planning and looking into the tank. I once paid for fuel where the a/c had been tied down for the week, pulled the caps and found next to nothing
The engine failure situation that most worries me is the initial takeoff segment. Even most piston twins are highly vulnerable at that time.
Forced landing odds are pretty good. Flying into terrain or water in or out of control is by far the major killer at night. Instrument skills are required as yes, you do fly into cloud on occasion as well as black holes and hazy conditions and had better be ready for it as Kennedy was not.
I too go onto the AH on lift off at night as there's a number of people who have flown perfectly good airplanes into the ground shortly after takeoff.
I fly SE at night from time to time. I avoid if possible but it is enjoyable when i do it. IMHO not much worse risk than winter over the sea.
I'll be doing it more when I get the lights in on my strip.
Bill
I'll be doing it more when I get the lights in on my strip.
Bill
