P/ut P1 P1/s Picus??????
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P/ut P1 P1/s Picus??????
I need to correct my records for solo hours during training. The CAA asked me to refer to them as P1 (rather than P/UT which I used). However, the Jepperson logbook seems to make reference to PICUS for this and Pooley's uses P1/S (though in their example then records them in the Dual or P2 column rather then the P1 column just to clarify things!!). I thought P1/S (ie P1 under supervision) was only to be used for time in a flight test? What have others recorded their P1 time during training as?
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I logged P1 when solo pre-licence and P1/S for the flight test. Both in the P1 column. I have only had my licence for a couple of weeks and the CAA issued it without any problems. What did your CFI say or suggest when he signed off the log-book before sending to the CAA?
On a similar note - after qualifying PPL, if I have a lesson with an instructor to brush up on or revise any aspect of PPL flying training, do I log this P/UT or P1/S? Is there any difference between that and say, undertaking new training (e.g. night qualification, IMC etc)
On a similar note - after qualifying PPL, if I have a lesson with an instructor to brush up on or revise any aspect of PPL flying training, do I log this P/UT or P1/S? Is there any difference between that and say, undertaking new training (e.g. night qualification, IMC etc)
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Oh Lord, he we go again.
I think the UK CAA should re-issue the AIC regarding Recording Of Flight Time.
The word 'training' begins with a 't'. A Pilot Under Training when undertaking differences training logs the flight time as PUT. The pilot cannot be P1, S or otherwise, until the training has been completed.
P1/S is for flight test. Training and testing, and a commander and trainee, are different things, believe it or not.
Guidance for the Recording Of Flight Time within the UK is in LASORS.
I think the UK CAA should re-issue the AIC regarding Recording Of Flight Time.
Originally Posted by liam
P1/S when conducting differences training in other aircraft after I got my licence. Then logged in P1 column.
P1/S is for flight test. Training and testing, and a commander and trainee, are different things, believe it or not.
Guidance for the Recording Of Flight Time within the UK is in LASORS.
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P1/S when conducting differences training in other aircraft after I got my licence. Then logged in P1 column.
P1/S is only ever used for the successful completion of a flight test or in certain circumstances during an integrated ATPL course.
It is never used for differences training, this is always PUT.
It is very simple and god knows why people make such a meal of it.
P1 - Solo - you are in command
PUT - Dual - recieving training
P1/s - Skill test - you were acting as commander under supervision of the examiner.
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Does one need to ask what the instructor/CFI were doing in allowing a logbook to be submitted to the CAA with these glaring errors in them?
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That's all noted. In fact the logbook has not been sent to caa since as obviously differences flights were post ppl. This can and will be easily corrected.
Last edited by liam548; 13th Aug 2010 at 18:10.
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I logged P1 when solo pre-licence and P1/S for the flight test. Both in the P1 column. I have only had my licence for a couple of weeks and the CAA issued it without any problems. What did your CFI say or suggest when he signed off the log-book before sending to the CAA?
On a similar note - after qualifying PPL, if I have a lesson with an instructor to brush up on or revise any aspect of PPL flying training, do I log this P/UT or P1/S? Is there any difference between that and say, undertaking new training (e.g. night qualification, IMC etc)
On a similar note - after qualifying PPL, if I have a lesson with an instructor to brush up on or revise any aspect of PPL flying training, do I log this P/UT or P1/S? Is there any difference between that and say, undertaking new training (e.g. night qualification, IMC etc)
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Originally Posted by rkgpilot
if I have a lesson with an instructor to brush up on or revise any aspect of PPL flying training, do I log this P/UT or P1/S?
If not a TEST only one of you can be PIC so you had better agree with the instructor BEFORE THE FLIGHT who is to be PIC. A 'brush-up', or 'revision', smacks of Pilot Under Training to me...
Originally Posted by rkgpilot
Is there any difference between that and say, undertaking new training (e.g. night qualification, IMC etc)
It's all in LASORS...free download...on the CAA website.....
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tmmorris
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Yes, but isn't an unsuccessful flight test PUT?
Which rather muddies the waters.
Tim
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Yes, but isn't an unsuccessful flight test PUT?
Which rather muddies the waters.
Tim
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Bose-x - regarding your first post - yes it is simple - but then why do Pooleys get it wrong in their example at the front of the book? This isn't a serious question by the way - thanks all for the clarification.
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This really is the easiest thing on the planet, so why do so many PPL candidates f**k it up? More to the point are instructors really that sh*te that they can't teach their PPL students what to log? If I were the CAA I'd haul them up in front of me and want to know WTF they can't teach people to do it properly.
So just to summarise what has already been said 10 times:
With an instructor: P/UT (Under Training)
With an examiner, and you pass: P1/S
Solo or none of the above: P1 (PIC or whatever)
Even after your PPL is issued, the above applies in general.
There, difficult?
So just to summarise what has already been said 10 times:
With an instructor: P/UT (Under Training)
With an examiner, and you pass: P1/S
Solo or none of the above: P1 (PIC or whatever)
Even after your PPL is issued, the above applies in general.
There, difficult?
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Okavango
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Bose-x - regarding your first post - yes it is simple - but then why do Pooleys get it wrong in their example at the front of the book? This isn't a serious question by the way - thanks all for the clarification.
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Bose-x - regarding your first post - yes it is simple - but then why do Pooleys get it wrong in their example at the front of the book? This isn't a serious question by the way - thanks all for the clarification.
As Al says, this is just another example of bad instruction filtering through.
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I am losing the will to live - there must be something more interesting to discuss.
Surely we would be better off just referring people to the SEARCH function.
What about a sticky?
Anything to save us please.
Bose - you are encouraging them - you really should know better.
Surely we would be better off just referring people to the SEARCH function.
What about a sticky?
Anything to save us please.
Bose - you are encouraging them - you really should know better.
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P1/S, P1U/S, PICUS, call it what you will, is for the result of a successful TEST
So for something like a club checkout, either the instructor logs the flight as P1 and you as SNY or you as P1 and him SNY or go for PICUS. I haven't found anything written anywhere and the CAA seems to accept the odd hours of such flights as PICUS (in my case at least).
P1/S when conducting differences training in other aircraft after I got my licence.
Pilot under instruction for the purpose of gaining a licence or rating, or for conversion to an aircraft type within an aircraft rating group or class.
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Originally Posted by Spendid Cruiser
for something like a club checkout, either the instructor logs the flight as P1 and you as SNY or you as P1 and him SNY
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In the case of a "club checkout" the pilot being "checked out" should log the hours IMHO.
The reason I say this is two fold: a) he is probably paying for them and b) insurance requirements may dictate he has been checked out and so he needs to log them.
For example my mate and me own an aeroplane. I have a lot more experience than him in complex fast aeroplanes and so our insurance company has put a restriction on him that he must complete 20 hours dual in the aircraft before he can solo. They say that these 20 hours dual can be with me or with a certified flight instructor (or CRI).
If it is with an FI then he can log P/UT and the FI P1, but he needs to log these hours as per the insurance requirement - else how do they know he has flown these 20 hours if an accident happens later on? If flying with me as safety pilot, then as he is rated to fly the aeroplane he can log them P1 and I'll be there "just in case" and log nothing.
The reason I say this is two fold: a) he is probably paying for them and b) insurance requirements may dictate he has been checked out and so he needs to log them.
For example my mate and me own an aeroplane. I have a lot more experience than him in complex fast aeroplanes and so our insurance company has put a restriction on him that he must complete 20 hours dual in the aircraft before he can solo. They say that these 20 hours dual can be with me or with a certified flight instructor (or CRI).
If it is with an FI then he can log P/UT and the FI P1, but he needs to log these hours as per the insurance requirement - else how do they know he has flown these 20 hours if an accident happens later on? If flying with me as safety pilot, then as he is rated to fly the aeroplane he can log them P1 and I'll be there "just in case" and log nothing.