P/ut P1 P1/s Picus??????
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Originally Posted by englishal
In the case of a "club checkout" the pilot being "checked out" should log the hours IMHO.
The reason I say this is two fold: a) he is probably paying for them and b) insurance requirements may dictate he has been checked out and so he needs to log them.
The reason I say this is two fold: a) he is probably paying for them and b) insurance requirements may dictate he has been checked out and so he needs to log them.
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A) When you fly with an instructor at a club check out (e.g you have let the 28 day rule lapse at your airfield) this is logged as you P1.
Be sure that you both agree that you are logging P1 as you cannot both log P1 time.
B) When you do differences training to a PA28 arrow with variable pitch from a standard PA28 or from a Cessna 150 for example this is logged PUT and logged as it was before you got your licence. You can then get the front of the log book signed up to certify you have had such training if you wish.
C) The only time P1/S (and you log the time in the P1 column) is used is following a siuccessful flight test and the examiner countersigns the entry. PPL skills test/IMC test etc
Suggest this be made a sticky as it seems to get asked about many times.
Be sure that you both agree that you are logging P1 as you cannot both log P1 time.
B) When you do differences training to a PA28 arrow with variable pitch from a standard PA28 or from a Cessna 150 for example this is logged PUT and logged as it was before you got your licence. You can then get the front of the log book signed up to certify you have had such training if you wish.
C) The only time P1/S (and you log the time in the P1 column) is used is following a siuccessful flight test and the examiner countersigns the entry. PPL skills test/IMC test etc
Suggest this be made a sticky as it seems to get asked about many times.
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When you fly with an instructor at a club check out (e.g you have let the 28 day rule lapse at your airfield) this is logged as you P1.
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Bose-X "As a pilot you are required to know the rules and regs. These are contained in a variety of official sources, JAR FCL, the ANO and the AIP as well as LASORS. I was not aware that pooleys were an official source of information......"
But then neither are you an official source of information?! So why then should these guys not question such inconsistencies?
Fuji Abound - when you refer to 'them' - don't try to make an inference that you're on the inside - respect all - this thread has obviously been useful to some, it's just a shame self proclaimed 'old hands' try to flex their muscle and belittle others in the process of trying to shade their insecurities.
And I wonder why I stay away from this site so long......
But then neither are you an official source of information?! So why then should these guys not question such inconsistencies?
Fuji Abound - when you refer to 'them' - don't try to make an inference that you're on the inside - respect all - this thread has obviously been useful to some, it's just a shame self proclaimed 'old hands' try to flex their muscle and belittle others in the process of trying to shade their insecurities.
And I wonder why I stay away from this site so long......
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It's nothing about anyone flexing muscles or belittling people. The rules around logging time are clear. This is an age old thread and if those who read the front cover of pooleys logbooks for guidance bothered to read the correct sources are even use the search facility here they would no the answer and there would be no reason for the old hands to respond.
And as an Instructor and Examiner I believe I am considered to be a purveyor of the official source of information.....
And as an Instructor and Examiner I believe I am considered to be a purveyor of the official source of information.....
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Fuji Abound - when you refer to 'them' - don't try to make an inference that you're on the inside - respect all - this thread has obviously been useful to some, it's just a shame self proclaimed 'old hands' try to flex their muscle and belittle others in the process of trying to shade their insecurities.
along the way!Frankly I couldnt care less what people discuss, and, in any event, it has nothing to do with me.
I am not even sure I could give you the correct answer - so you can forget all the "old hands" business.
On a more serious note from my own point of view I am being frank when I say I couldnt really care there seem to be far more improtant things, but, whatever floats your boat.
And I wonder why I stay away from this site so long......
however, Bose does know his subject, so he is worthwhile reading which of course you would know if you hadnt stayed away for so long.
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SPIC
Without wanting to annoy anyone any further - had a look at Jeppesen (which supposedly applies JAR FCL requirements) last night and that also makes reference to SPIC, Student Pilot In Command entries, as a separate classification to PIC and PICUS (which as per my original note I already understood to be used for test purposes only). It states to have SPIC entries signed off by the instructor. Has anyone applied this process, or as per earlier messages, simply recorded all solo time even in training as P1?
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It is just PIC time. If you are solo you are PIC are you not?
Log SPIC by all means for your own fun, but when it comes to license issue the CAA only want to know PIC time and so should be included with the PIC time.
Log SPIC by all means for your own fun, but when it comes to license issue the CAA only want to know PIC time and so should be included with the PIC time.
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SPIC is used under intergrated training to allow students to build PIC time.
It has no place in the logbook of someone who hasn't completed an intergrated course.
PICUS is multi crew or test and the examiner or Captain signs it
PIC is you sign the tech log and Captain the aircraft.
Dual when someone else signs the techlog who has a instructor rating and the purpose of the flight is instruction
Any other theorys on club checkouts etc are rubbish (pish
)
But I really can't get excited over it for a PPL, it only ever matters when applying for CPL/ATPL and in the event of an accident an insurance company having stipulations.
Its actually quite funny seeing some peoples log books that are hungry for PIC time. They try so hard to log it but they just end up looking like incompetent arses. Yet others don't seem to care one bit and log everything as dual. To be honest there is a strong link between taking the piss with PICUS etc and flying competence. If you spot PICUS entrys before a check ride/hour with an instructor its more than likey the pilot will be talent limited.
It has no place in the logbook of someone who hasn't completed an intergrated course.
PICUS is multi crew or test and the examiner or Captain signs it
PIC is you sign the tech log and Captain the aircraft.
Dual when someone else signs the techlog who has a instructor rating and the purpose of the flight is instruction
Any other theorys on club checkouts etc are rubbish (pish
) But I really can't get excited over it for a PPL, it only ever matters when applying for CPL/ATPL and in the event of an accident an insurance company having stipulations.
Its actually quite funny seeing some peoples log books that are hungry for PIC time. They try so hard to log it but they just end up looking like incompetent arses. Yet others don't seem to care one bit and log everything as dual. To be honest there is a strong link between taking the piss with PICUS etc and flying competence. If you spot PICUS entrys before a check ride/hour with an instructor its more than likey the pilot will be talent limited.
Last edited by mad_jock; 17th Aug 2010 at 11:58.
A few years ago there was an enterprising FI at a certain airfield in the east midlands who had his PPL students log all of their solo flights as SPIC, on the not entirely illogical basis that they were Student Pilots and were flying as pilot In Command under his supervision.
As if that weren't bad enough.... yep, you guessed it, because LASORS states "The holder of an instructor rating may log as pilot-in-command all flight time during which he acts as an instructor in an aeroplane or supervises SPIC flying." he then entered as PIC in his own logbook all of the time that his students were flying solo.
It's true - I swear!
As if that weren't bad enough.... yep, you guessed it, because LASORS states "The holder of an instructor rating may log as pilot-in-command all flight time during which he acts as an instructor in an aeroplane or supervises SPIC flying." he then entered as PIC in his own logbook all of the time that his students were flying solo.
It's true - I swear!
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If you spot PICUS entrys before a check ride/hour with an instructor its more than likey the pilot will be talent limited.
....either.
But do make sure you have the recommended:
1. Aviator's watch.
2. Sunglasses of the latest vogue.
3. Headset.
Perhaps the frequent (and tedious) PIC, logbook, watch, sunglasses, headset and epaulette threads could be combined into one?
Or preferably none?
But do make sure you have the recommended:
1. Aviator's watch.
2. Sunglasses of the latest vogue.
3. Headset.
Perhaps the frequent (and tedious) PIC, logbook, watch, sunglasses, headset and epaulette threads could be combined into one?
Or preferably none?
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Spendid I find the complete opppersite of course.
In fact your young or old dyslexic engineer is a pleasure to instruct how to fly, although they do have a low threshold for "bollocks" which has no common sense attached on the ground.
They seem to have an inate situational awarness model from the point they have a smidge of spare capacity and understand whats going on on the radio.
Teaching them is just a case of sitting next to them while they work out how the levers and knobs fit into there mental model of how they think an aircraft works. Once that clicks you just have to agree with them everytime they say "i f'd that up can we do it again?"
Easy money
And Beagle you have forgotten flying suits and the wearing of the infamous Captains Ring AV Eight interestingly enough they seem to have branched out into nail care as well.
In fact your young or old dyslexic engineer is a pleasure to instruct how to fly, although they do have a low threshold for "bollocks" which has no common sense attached on the ground.
They seem to have an inate situational awarness model from the point they have a smidge of spare capacity and understand whats going on on the radio.
Teaching them is just a case of sitting next to them while they work out how the levers and knobs fit into there mental model of how they think an aircraft works. Once that clicks you just have to agree with them everytime they say "i f'd that up can we do it again?"
Easy money
And Beagle you have forgotten flying suits and the wearing of the infamous Captains Ring AV Eight interestingly enough they seem to have branched out into nail care as well.
Last edited by mad_jock; 19th Aug 2010 at 09:40. Reason: a daft spelling mistake that even I could spot
