A.O.P.A.
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A.O.P.A.
I would welcome views on the actual or perceived effectiveness of this organisation. I am a memebr and propose to remain so because it is the only voice we have. PLEASE what do other think. Any CAA people out there to give us your views as well?
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Well, your only voice apart from PFA, BGA, BMAA, GASCo, GAAC, RAeS, BBAC, BALPA, and a few smaller clubs (Flying Farmers Assoc, Civil Service Flying Club, etc...). It fulfills a function (primarily in the UK representing the flying schools), but I'm a member of several organisations other than AOPA that personally I think represent MY interests better. If I did other things for a hobby/living within aviation, I'd probably feel differently and might well be a member.
I do wonder however why AOPA manages to be more expensive to join than any of PFA, BMAA, BGA and BBAC all of whom have to run Engineering departments and two of whom run pilots and instructor licensing activities too.
G
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
I do wonder however why AOPA manages to be more expensive to join than any of PFA, BMAA, BGA and BBAC all of whom have to run Engineering departments and two of whom run pilots and instructor licensing activities too.
G
[ 19 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
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From: uk
OK, I'll put my head down and await the fallout
'I don't belong to any organisation'
Sorry, I just don't. Not because I'm tight, Since learning in 1997 and always rented I'm not sure which would be the best and have commited the crime of doing nothing.
It would be much less confusing if there was just one body representing us. Am I right in assuming there are many others like me or do I need some correction therapy?
In my defence I've just had a nice letter from Mr Robinson with my AOPA aerobatic certificate inviting me to join. I've asked if paying monthly by Direct debit is an option but not heard anything yet. I take it as a NO. OK, I'm 90% mind made up that I'll join this and the British Aerobatic Association
Then there's the PFA....Oh what to do! I could stop flyind and join them all I suppose...
One point though that I suppose is the decider for joining, if a bit 'Me Me ME'. If I am ever unfortunate enough to have an accident and survive (this bit being fortunate!), who will I turn to for help??
If this thread runs a good course, which I hope it will, I guess it will be the ultimate decider for me and others. Hopefully in the 'positive sense for AOPA'! After all if we all join it would be cheaper and they would be Louder
What's the percentage of pilots in AOPA?
TT
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: TRIMTRABB ]</p>
'I don't belong to any organisation'
Sorry, I just don't. Not because I'm tight, Since learning in 1997 and always rented I'm not sure which would be the best and have commited the crime of doing nothing.
It would be much less confusing if there was just one body representing us. Am I right in assuming there are many others like me or do I need some correction therapy?
In my defence I've just had a nice letter from Mr Robinson with my AOPA aerobatic certificate inviting me to join. I've asked if paying monthly by Direct debit is an option but not heard anything yet. I take it as a NO. OK, I'm 90% mind made up that I'll join this and the British Aerobatic Association
Then there's the PFA....Oh what to do! I could stop flyind and join them all I suppose...
One point though that I suppose is the decider for joining, if a bit 'Me Me ME'. If I am ever unfortunate enough to have an accident and survive (this bit being fortunate!), who will I turn to for help??
If this thread runs a good course, which I hope it will, I guess it will be the ultimate decider for me and others. Hopefully in the 'positive sense for AOPA'! After all if we all join it would be cheaper and they would be Louder
What's the percentage of pilots in AOPA?
TT
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: TRIMTRABB ]</p>
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From: UK
Genghis, for the 50 hr/yr PPL hobbyist, what body do you think represents us best? I've felt I should join the PFA or AOPA for some while to support the industry that gives me so much pleasure but I'm not into home builts or microlights, and I've not heard a great deal to recommend AOPA.
Comparing the US AOPA with ours is like chalk & cheese. They're cheaper and they seem to offer their member so much more. (Granted with a large membership, they have the resources to offer this)
Comparing the US AOPA with ours is like chalk & cheese. They're cheaper and they seem to offer their member so much more. (Granted with a large membership, they have the resources to offer this)
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From: Herts, UK
Only about 10% of PPLs are in AOPA UK (3000 of 30000). Obviously they will never have the resources of AOPA US but if more of us joined and made our voices heard within the organisationthey might be able to represent us better. Bit of a chicken and egg situation, I guess.
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It seems suprising to me that we do hear so little of the organisations mentioned here. I am looking forward to reading ppruners comments on this matter, as I for one really don't have a clue about them at all.
Does anyone have any web site details?
Regards
LF
Does anyone have any web site details?
Regards
LF
Joined: Aug 2000
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From: Herts, UK
Here are some URLs to keep you amused for a while....
How it should be done <a href="http://news.aopa.org/" target="_blank">AOPA US</a>
The UK way <a href="http://www.aopa.co.uk" target="_blank">AOPA UK</a>
<a href="http://www.pfa.org.uk" target="_blank"> PFA </a>
<a href="http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/" target="_blank">BMAA</a>
<a href="http://www.hiway.co.uk/aviation/pplir/" target="_blank">PPL/IR Network</a>
<a href="http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgaindex.html" target="_blank">BGA</a>
<a href="http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/" target="_blank">Aerobatics</a>
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Cahlibahn ]</p>
How it should be done <a href="http://news.aopa.org/" target="_blank">AOPA US</a>
The UK way <a href="http://www.aopa.co.uk" target="_blank">AOPA UK</a>
<a href="http://www.pfa.org.uk" target="_blank"> PFA </a>
<a href="http://www.avnet.co.uk/bmaa/" target="_blank">BMAA</a>
<a href="http://www.hiway.co.uk/aviation/pplir/" target="_blank">PPL/IR Network</a>
<a href="http://www.gliding.co.uk/bgaindex.html" target="_blank">BGA</a>
<a href="http://www.aerobatics.org.uk/" target="_blank">Aerobatics</a>
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Cahlibahn ]</p>
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bcfc, in your position, I'd join the PFA. Their website will show you all sorts of activities which are not homebuilt specific (most issues are the same once the aeroplane's built aren't they!).
PFA membership is about 8,000, which when you consider there are about 2,000 PFA homebuilts in the UK, means a lot of people like you are in it.
G
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
PFA membership is about 8,000, which when you consider there are about 2,000 PFA homebuilts in the UK, means a lot of people like you are in it.
G
[ 20 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
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From: UK
Cheers
Having looked at the two organisations, I've gone for the PFA and signed up this afternoon. While I'm not one for clubs or societies, I feel GA needs a voice and the only way this'll happen is for people to participate. I just hope the PFA is successful.
bcfc
Having looked at the two organisations, I've gone for the PFA and signed up this afternoon. While I'm not one for clubs or societies, I feel GA needs a voice and the only way this'll happen is for people to participate. I just hope the PFA is successful.
bcfc
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From: Niort
I've been a PFA member for a considerable time. The periodic mailshots from AOPA have left me completely cold. I do not want a 'crew identity card' I want an organisation that are least tries to represent light aircraft flying.. .You can certianly argue that the PFA has not been very effective - but its affordable, supports an engineering department and was fairly central in the Little Gransden business.. .AOPA well I know it's effective in the States - here I couldn't tell you what it does - apart from represent the organisations who largely oppose the NPPL!. .I dearly wish there were fewer of these alphabet soup organisations but the PFA gets my vote as the best of a bad lot.
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My involvement with PFA is purely as an ordinary member, but I regularly sit at meetings alongside their senior staff. They do work hard, and I think you'll find are pretty shrewd negotiators on behalf of their members. Nobody's perfect, but I'd say all three of the big clubs (PFA, BMAA, BGA) get a pretty high proportion of what they set out to achieve.
I'm also a great admirer of their "Safety Awareness Days", which are quite excellent. Not to mention the rally, and the fact that (at-least if you fly a PFA aeroplane) you can get conversions, advanced flying courses and your BFR pretty cheaply through the coaching scheme. And a pretty good magazine.
The NPPL by the way was originally an AOPA proposal, but is now being driven by a steering group comprising AOPA, PFA, BMAA, CAA and BGA (in no particular order).
G
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
I'm also a great admirer of their "Safety Awareness Days", which are quite excellent. Not to mention the rally, and the fact that (at-least if you fly a PFA aeroplane) you can get conversions, advanced flying courses and your BFR pretty cheaply through the coaching scheme. And a pretty good magazine.
The NPPL by the way was originally an AOPA proposal, but is now being driven by a steering group comprising AOPA, PFA, BMAA, CAA and BGA (in no particular order).
G
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: Genghis the Engineer ]</p>
"Trust Me"
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Can only but echo what Pete says. Can't see the point in joining AOPA, but find PFA mag an interesting read and some useful background info, even if I'm not a homebuilder!! The Rally's quite fun too! Plus you get in for free as a member -that's fifteen quid or so!!
But, must be something to build your own plane, and then fly it!
When I mentioned to my wife that an instructor of mine had built his own Long-EZ, she promptly gave me a loud 'No!
-I got the message........
But, must be something to build your own plane, and then fly it!
When I mentioned to my wife that an instructor of mine had built his own Long-EZ, she promptly gave me a loud 'No!
-I got the message........
Not so N, but still FG
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I have joined the PFA, although I don't fly a PFA type, and have less than zero interest in home building (indeed I would take a lot of persuading to get into something built in someone's garage). I joined for the reasons indicated by Genghis and others above and am glad that I did.
Having said this, the last time that this topic came up, I said that I'd go and join AOPA as well, for the reasons indicated above ie: that if we all join maybe it will get better. I didn't, so maybe I will this time.
PS: before all you homebuilders out there start strafing, I do realise that there are garages, and garages: I saw an RV 6 at Sibson last year which looked as well if not better built than my factory-produced aircraft, which it can out-perform as well.
Having said this, the last time that this topic came up, I said that I'd go and join AOPA as well, for the reasons indicated above ie: that if we all join maybe it will get better. I didn't, so maybe I will this time.
PS: before all you homebuilders out there start strafing, I do realise that there are garages, and garages: I saw an RV 6 at Sibson last year which looked as well if not better built than my factory-produced aircraft, which it can out-perform as well.
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Manchester, UK
What people have missed (up to now) is, unless I'm mistaken......
PFA is a member of AOPA and can therefore pass your views and wants via its channel.
It would be interesting to see what aviation organisations are affiliated to AOPA. This seems to me to be sensible, in that specialist group views can be focussed and vocalised up to the higher, more generic body.
I joined PFA.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: poetpilot ]</p>
PFA is a member of AOPA and can therefore pass your views and wants via its channel.
It would be interesting to see what aviation organisations are affiliated to AOPA. This seems to me to be sensible, in that specialist group views can be focussed and vocalised up to the higher, more generic body.
I joined PFA.
[ 21 January 2002: Message edited by: poetpilot ]</p>
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FNG - there are also homebuilts and HOMEBUILTS. Some take 5000 man hours and leave you scared to take it outside in case it gets scratched, some can be built in 400 man hours and provide cheap and cheerful flying.
But virtually all types are available second hand, and the man hours spent building them originally don't seem to bear much relationship to the second hand values. If you're happy flying VMC only, there's a lot to be said to spending £5k+ on a PFA homebuilt or BMAA microlight.
G
But virtually all types are available second hand, and the man hours spent building them originally don't seem to bear much relationship to the second hand values. If you're happy flying VMC only, there's a lot to be said to spending £5k+ on a PFA homebuilt or BMAA microlight.
G
Not so N, but still FG
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Fair point Genghis. Pity that few of them seem to be cleared for aeros. Aeros aside, though, anyone know of a share in a decent basic (un-super) Cub going in the London area, or anyone (or four) want to make a group on one?
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<a href="http://www.pfa.org.uk/Engineering/Types/types.html" target="_blank">http://www.pfa.org.uk/Engineering/Types/types.html</A>
There are one or two, Christen Eagle, full range of Pitts...
G
There are one or two, Christen Eagle, full range of Pitts...
G
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From: Hampshire, UK
Put simply, without the PFA I don't think I'd be flying now. Going to an AME from the PFA list of AMEs offering special rates to members, saved me more than my PFA annual membership. So for free I also get the excellent magazine, the rally (OK I pay a few squids to get in on the day), the local struts ... and the work the PFA do do such as representations to NATS that benefits all of us, no matter what we fly. Then add to that the economics of operating on a permit, PFA coaches/BFRs, safety awareness days .... . .I'm sure there are some who will have other views but for me its got to be the PFA.. .Slip
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A very difficult choice. If you look at what AOPA-US does, then AOPA-UK is a poor shadow. But with a tiny percentage of the membership of AOPA-US, that's what we should expect.
I joined AOPA "on principle", on the basis more members should mean more work done. I did the same for the PFA, although I'll never do any of the things PFA exists for.
I also support GAAC - the nearest thing to an umbrella organisation. GAAC has been a real eye-opener: there are something like 60 flying organisations in the UK, representing different interests, and they find it very hard to agree on most things. Their members have different interests, and that means they argue different perspectives.
No surprise, but it does make it hard to present a common voice to the CAA (or worse, to JAA). There are some very old organisations that claim to represent everyone, but they don't.
Send yer money to GAAC - they desperately need it, to fight to protect our airfields against predatory developers, and nimbys who move into a house by an airfield, then start a campaign to close it.
Or join A4A - <a href="http://www.airfields.org.uk" target="_blank">www.airfields.org.uk</a> - all done by e-mail and enthusiasm.
I joined AOPA "on principle", on the basis more members should mean more work done. I did the same for the PFA, although I'll never do any of the things PFA exists for.
I also support GAAC - the nearest thing to an umbrella organisation. GAAC has been a real eye-opener: there are something like 60 flying organisations in the UK, representing different interests, and they find it very hard to agree on most things. Their members have different interests, and that means they argue different perspectives.
No surprise, but it does make it hard to present a common voice to the CAA (or worse, to JAA). There are some very old organisations that claim to represent everyone, but they don't.
Send yer money to GAAC - they desperately need it, to fight to protect our airfields against predatory developers, and nimbys who move into a house by an airfield, then start a campaign to close it.
Or join A4A - <a href="http://www.airfields.org.uk" target="_blank">www.airfields.org.uk</a> - all done by e-mail and enthusiasm.
